RADEON 9700 now the best

Catch I really do wonder if you acctually own a Radeon Card at all. Why? because you've said yourself that you've had loads of problems with explanation as to what the problem is and your sig say GF3 Ti 200.

You have made it blatantly obvious that you dont like ATi, fine no ones forcing you to like them, but FFS give credit where its due. Not only on the 9700 but ATi's drivers. The new catalyst drivers are much better than the dets. at the moment due to the massive amount of scalability.

There are two ATi cards in my house at the moment one Radeon8500 and one Rage128Pro. Both of these cards have worked without a hitch.

Like someone earlier said in this post, ever noticed how Nvidia people slag off the ATi drivers and the Ati users say they are fine, im sorry to say this to you catch, but you really have caught the wrong end of the stick:D
 
Originally posted by OTE
Catch I really do wonder if you acctually own a Radeon Card at all. Why? because you've said yourself that you've had loads of problems with explanation as to what the problem is and your sig say GF3 Ti 200.

You have made it blatantly obvious that you dont like ATi, fine no ones forcing you to like them, but FFS give credit where its due. Not only on the 9700 but ATi's drivers. The new catalyst drivers are much better than the dets. at the moment due to the massive amount of scalability.

There are two ATi cards in my house at the moment one Radeon8500 and one Rage128Pro. Both of these cards have worked without a hitch.

Like someone earlier said in this post, ever noticed how Nvidia people slag off the ATi drivers and the Ati users say they are fine, im sorry to say this to you catch, but you really have caught the wrong end of the stick:D

THANK GOD, well nvidia AND catch put in there place.
 
Originally posted by catch23
their software department is a joke...admit it.
in the past, as of now, they have taken a hint and improved. and i don't think that we are arrogant, we have one break through, that finally topples nvidia for the time being. as asti users we take alot of slack (in place for better word) from nvidia users.
 
no problems here

I have tried the new drivers and control panel and I used the first catylest also and each one has been better and to say that they are not working or no good is wrong ......... I have gained fps and enhanced images with the new ATI sets and everything works like a charm ...... as for older drivers not being good or whatever the past is gone and today is now and now ATI is doing very well with cards and drivers but anytime there is a post for ATI you can be sure and look back you will always see a certain someone trashing ATI and its always the same person
 
wrong

Originally posted by catch23
The Catalyst drivers work fine for people with 8500's...they DON'T work for most of us with anything under that though...

3 different cards and I can't get one to work...with ANY ATi driver...that's sad...THAT'S why I hate ATi.


nope they work fine with a radeon 7000 64mb
 
there is always trashing of ATi even if they do improve the drivers, or make a better product. because most people will not change there opinion.
 
look at the benchmark improvement. just look! there is signifigant improvement.
 
regardless of what your past experience is with ati cards, you can not debate that they have finally put out a product that is not all bark and no bite. and in this case it could be a bit more bit if they had better driver arcitecture, but in the end... it is hardware.
 
I can not argue anymore, you all want to kill ati, so there is not point in argueing. i give up, kill ati, you win
 
Originally posted by catch23
Not kill ATi....I want them to make drivers that work right for EVERYBODY...nVidia doesn't have a problem with this.

ATis drivers work fine for the 8500s because ATi has not had unified drivers (drivers that support all supported cards in one file)...their old drivers were all seperate..then the unified them...thats when they started having problems...the Radeon 8500s came that way...so they work as they should...but ATi refuses to fix support for older cards.
Well from here it looks like you want to drive a stake through their heart.
 
lets drop this...

How bout we drop the past and focus on ATI's future. This entire thread was meant to be about the Radeon 9700, not the 8500 or anything else.

I don't think I'll be buying the 9700 since I assume that the GeForce Series will equal or outperform the Radeon 9700.

However I'm still interested in the Radeon 10000(0.13 micron). Anyone know where I can get the info on this card and release date?
 
is anandtech.com the only place that has actual benchmarks compared to geforce4?
 
If you want a NV30 it loks like you might have to wait a WHILE...

From [H]ard|OCP

NV30 Out by Mid-2003:
An account of a conversation with an NVIDIA rep at Siggraph as told in the Infogrames forum.


Q- "Any time frame I can look forward to?"
A- "It shouldn't be very long, we don't like to give release dates. But it should not be too long of a wait Q3 - Q4 2002 maybe early to mid 2003".

http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189642

And as to specs of the card.....


Beyond3D Mouths Off:
Nothing new there right? Seriously, Dave Baumann has posted some specifications for the NV30.


.13u process; AGP 8x support; DDR2 Memory support; Vertex Shaders beyond DirectX9 VS2.0; Pixel Shader beyond DirectX9 PS2.0 ; Support for OpenGL and DirectX HLSL via Cg; OpenGL Extensions supporting long Pixel Shader & Vertex Shader programs ; High Precision (64- and 128-bit Floating Point color); New focus on computational efficiency rather than memory efficiency ; Advanced programmability and high-level shading language support; Expected this fall along with DirectX9.

http://www.beyond3d.com/#news1816
 
Originally posted by catch23
Of course no driver will fix the gap between the Radeon 9700 and the GF4 Ti 4600...it's a next generation card...don't you understand that? It should beat out that GF4 a LOT more than it is.

The NV30 isn't being pushed back because they're having problems...they're making it better...If you've looked at the whitepaper...you'd know that the NV30 chip's capabilities are far beyond the Radeon 9700's.


I don't want to see a paper, I want to see a fully functional card. You guys were pretty fast to compare Geforce 4 with Radeon 8500. Methinks you're an nvidia troll :D :D :D
 
"The Radeon 8500 was built to compete with GF4s (before GF4s were even out)...The Radeon 9700 is a next generation card...don't compare it to an older card...compare it to another next generation card...which is what I was doing..."

Ummm actually no......The Radeon 8500 was built to compete with the GF3.....Nvidia only released the GF4 4200 because ATI had a sub 200 dollar card 8500LE.....Remember that Nvidia, fans, The only reason that you see a 4200 on store shelves is because of ATI.

Nvidia has always had a product out before ATI, GF2-RADEON 7000 (7500**), GF3-RADEON 8500 (9000*), GF4-RADEON 9700.....The whole GF lineup has consisted of minor changes in the core, Nvidia it seems has been living on old tech for a long time. You should not think that it is actually going to change with their next card, Their GF(5) will, no doubt, cantain tech. that is more than 4 years old (3DFX tech).

*card to take over for previous ATI cards...**Already on the market

And as for the NV30 being delayed due to Nvidia "making it better" The chip is far to along in the production cycle to make any drastic changes. Any change made now, will delay the chip being released for period of time Nvidia is not willing to make. You can not just change this and change that, and then go fab a chip,they will figure the cost of the changes (which will include lost revenue due to changes, and not getting product into endusers hands), it takes time to design the chip, then actually fab a chip, test the changes, compare the finished designs against each other (benchmarks), get the NV30 manufacturer to change the die and pop out a houndred or so to check for construction errors (pass/fail ratio), recalculate cost and revenue for each card sold. And I am sure that I have missed a lot, so what is that an easy 4-6 month delay in the production. But if Nvidia is changing thinks to the NV30, it is only an advantage to ATI engineers who are most likely working on the their next GPU.



ATI has released a very nice product (9700). And for the naysayers out their, ATI DID in fact use the ART-X team "One of the most important positive impacts was the acquisition of ArtX that provided the talented engineers who developed the Flipper chip and RADEON 9700."

The GF(5) will be just as good as the 9700, but like others, I do not think that the endusers will see the card until 2003, which seems to break Nvidia 6 month roll out for new tech....As of right now the 9700 is .15 micron and ATI has plans to shrink the die to .13 to continue battle with Nvidas' future card. Nvida is also helping to create the vid-card for the XBOX2, so it seems that the engineers will be split up once again.
 
Originally posted by catch23
You're wrong, the 8500 was put out to keep up with GF4s...NOT GF3s...GeForce3s had been out for at least a year, along with the Radeon 7500...before the 8500 was released...then came GF4s...

The Radeon 9700 is a NEXT GENERATION CARD...IT IS THE FIRST OF IT'S KIND...The NV30 will be NVidia's FIRST attempt at the next generation card...

GeForce 4's use DirextX 8.1...Radeon 9700's use DirectX 9... Those two are NOT comparable...Seriously think about it...I know because of the past, you would think that this is ATi's answer to the GF4s...but the truth is...ATi fell behind, and never had a comeback to the GF3 Ti series...


You're not making any sense here whatsoever, the Radeon 7500 and 8500 were released almost at the same date: http://www.neoseeker.com/Companies/profiles/ATI/?sortby=release


And the Geforce 3 was released five months before the 7500 and 8500: http://www.neoseeker.com/Companies/profiles/Nvidia/


Never had a comeback to the Geforce 3 Ti-series, you must be joking. I'll eat every GF3-based card alive.
 
Catch23 in a way you are right about ATIs' 9700 not being in a "direct" fight against Nvidias' GF4 series the 9700 is indirectly killing all hope for GF4 "uber" status among gamers. ATI does not release cards every 6 months like Nvidia has in the past. Nvidia has in a way been trying to out preform the RADEON series since the GF2.

GF2-RADEON 7000 (7500**), GF3-RADEON 8500 (9000*), GF4/5-RADEON 9700

*card to take over for previous ATI cards...**Already on the market


GF2 came out before the RADEON 32MB SDR/DDR, then around 6 months later came the GF2 ULTRA and ATI's RADEON 64MB SDR/DDR. 6 months after GF2 ULTRA was released the GF3 came onto the market. Later on that year (Augest 2001) ATI followed up with the RADEON 7500 and 8500. The 7500 was for a fight with the GF2 ULTRA and the 8500 was to take on the GF3. "ATi's new Radeon 8500 is the toughest attack against NVIDIA since the days of Voodoo5. This time ATi went almost the whole way to make sure it beats NVIDIA's flagship GeForce3. Still NVIDIA was prepared. " (TomsHardware) DET 4 drivers were released days before the RADEON 8500 announcement......
Nvidia then released the GF3 TI series (200/500). ATI then followed up with more RAM for the 8500 to 128 and released the 8500LE. Nvidia had no plans on releasing the GF4 4200 and only plannded on the 4400/4600 but since Nvidia would have no "uber" card for less than 200 they released the 4200 to counter the budget minded RADEON 8500LE. FEB 6, 2002 Nvidia released the GF4, with retail products hitting shelves within 30 days and OEM PCs' 60 days. (Nvidia.com) Thats a full 6 months after the 8500 was released, it sounds like Nvidia needed the GF4 to counter the 8500 not ATI needing the 8500 to beat the GF4. Almost a full year later ATI (JULY 2002) announced the 9700/9000, the 9700 will hit retail stores by Oct 2003. The 9000 is taking place of the 8500, the 9000 is trimmed up 8500 that is slower. Nvidias' NV30 will be their counter for the RADEON 9700. If Nvidia does not make an anouncement for their NV30 by AUG 6, they will be falling behind their 6 month product cycle.

So after all this, Catch23 are you still going to tell me and others that the 8500, which came out 6 months before the GF4 and just a few months after the GF3, was ATIs' preempted strike against the GF4???????
 
WHY THE HELL ARE YOU COMPARING THE RADEON 9700 WITH THE NV30? IN THE FIRST PLACE THEY ARE BOTH BUILT USING DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES THUS ARE NOT COMPARABLE. 9700 WAS BUILT ON 0.15UM WHILE NV30 WILL BE BUILT ON 0.13UM THUS MAKING ANY COMPARISON BETWEEN THEM BIAS BECAUSE IT IS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT NV30 WOULD BE FASTER. THE 9700 SHOULD BE COMPARED TO A SIMILAR 0.15UM NVIDIA PRODUCT TO HAVE RELIABLE COMPARISONS. AND THE GEFORCE4 4600 IS CURRENTLY THEIR HIGHEST BET. IF RUMORS THAT THE RADEON 9700 WOULD BE MANUFACTURE ON THE 0.13UM TECHNOLOGY, THEN THATS THE TIME THAT IT CAN BE COMPARED TO THE NV30 THAT HAS 0.13UM GATE TRANSISTORS.

COMMON YOUR LIKE COMPARING AN APPLE TO AN ORANGE! HAVE SENSE IN HERE MEN!
 

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