[Politics Poll]Who will win?

[Perris Calderon]

quits it is

a great conversation thogh in my opinion thepatriot...I'm sure there will be more

 

[ThePatriot]

Very stimulating conversation! Beats starin' at the tube!

Yeah, I'm sure there'll be more. Only 8 weeks left, tho. What will we do after the election?

 

[Maveric169]

I just want to touch on 1 part of this, Perris your statement

are you guys wealthy?

because if you are not wealthy, then you'll be among the rest of us that will be paying the price of the bush "we need to give as much money to rich people as we can get away with" (trickle down) economics

Your acting as if this is something new. This has been the case with EVERY single president in history. It is not going to change, not with Bush, not with Kerry, not with any president. Period.

In general, this is why I try really don't like political debates. It just drives me nuts to see things that EVERY president does/has done being used as ammunition as if it was the first time it has ever happened.

 

[Perris Calderon]

some presidents subscribe to a philosophy of growing the upper class at the expense of the middle class...you missed the part that the Bush economic advisor has already told us that the upper class will not be paying the bill for the Bush give away to rich people, you and me are...no need to speculate, this is already afirmed by the Bush advisor

some politicians subscribe to the philosophy that growing the middle class is a better idea for this country..this however is never at the expense of the upper class, since the middle class is the engine that drives the
American economy, when the middle class thrives, the upper class thrives as well.

completely different approach.

you makes your bed, you sleeps in it.

 

[Xie]

Interesting news today .. here .

 

[Maveric169]

Just another form of mud slinging with nothing to back it up.

 

[PseudoKiller]

oh god when will this ever end...

they both suck and are from a privledged background...

but I have nnot heard of how Kerry got caught driving drunk or how he had a coke

problem or how he drove several businesses into the ground. Screw the damn war

records. Lets talk business practices.

 

[Xie]

oh god when will this ever end...

they both suck and are from a privledged background...

but I have nnot heard of how Kerry got caught driving drunk or how he had a coke

problem or how he drove several businesses into the ground. Screw the damn war

records. Lets talk business practices.

I think it's funny cuz all this bitching about Kerry's record and now finally people get to see what Bush did. I would rather this be about what how bush has F'd over America instead of who did (didn't do) what in a war ages ago.

 

[j79zlr]

Don't forget that 87% of soft money is given to the Democratic spin machine, and you're buying it hook, line and sinker. Don't forget the fictional slander film thrown at the president. Don't forget that John Kerry is the one who made Vietnam the basis for his campaign. I don't remember Bush admitting he committed war crimes? I also don't remember Bush feeding the enemy while POW's where being tortured because they weren't saying those things. I also remember Bush having to go through all this in 2000. The Democrats are just getting scared.

You do realize our troops are scared to death that Kerry might win. They are afraid that all they have accomplished will be for not. I would be terrified if he wins, someone has to pay for the 700 billion dollar health care plan he proposes. We will suffer tremendously after he cuts defense spending even further than Clinton. He is a dangerous man. He is "Unfit for command"

 

[Perris Calderon]

the troops are hoping kerry wins...sorry...I guess we speak to differant people

as far as clinton cutting defense spending, sorry to burden you with the facts j79, you're so intent on repeating the right wing spin machine, but here's a blurb fron cheney;

CHENEY IN 1984: According to the 12/16/84 Washington Post, Cheney said if Reagan "doesn't really cut defense, he becomes the No. 1 special pleader in town." Cheney urged Reagan to cut defense spending, saying "the president has to reach out and take a whack at everything to be credible" and said that absent a raid of Social Security or a tax increase, "you've got to hit defense."

CHENEY FOLLOWS THROUGH ON CRITICISM: Six years after his criticism, it was Cheney who bragged to Congress about shifting the direction of U.S. defense policy from the Reagan years. On 2/1/90, he told Congress "since I became Secretary, we've been through a fairly major process of reducing the defense budget." He bragged that during the first year of his tenure, he "cut almost $65 billion out of the five-year defense program" and that subsequent proposals would "take another $167 billion out." He trumpeted the fact that "we're recommending base closures," "we're talking about force structure cuts" and "we've got a military construction freeze." .

 

[j79zlr]

the latest poll I've seen shows Bush 60-30 in military households.

Kerry Voted Against Key Military Spending

In 1991, Kerry voted to slash over $3 Billion from Defense.
In 1992, Kerry voted to cut $6 billion from Defense.
In 1993, Kerry voted against increased Defense spending for Military Pay Raise.
In 1994, Kerry voted to cut $1.5 billion in intelligence spending.

Amendment 1452 for the Senate dated 2/9/94, note this is after the first world trade center attack, rescinded the following funds, in millions:

Selective Service: $15 million and program termination
Trident Missile system: $1130 million and program termination
Follow-On Early Warning System: $100 million and program termination
Ballistic Missile Defense: $900 million
Armed Forces recruiting: $33 million
Titan IV missile system: $350 million
National Foreign Intelligence Program and the Tactical Intelligence and Related Activities (DoD): $1000 million and a five-year freeze at the new spending level
Space Station Freedom: $900 million and program termination
Nuclear weapons research and testing: $900 million and a cap of 4,000 nuclear warheads regardless of treaties.
Forced reductions in the Navy's P-3 Antisubmarine program
Important Military Weapons Kerry Voted Against

Tomahawk Cruise Missile
F-16 Fighting Falcon Jet
B-1B Bomber
B-2A Bomber
F-15 Fighter
M1 Abrams Tank
Patriot Missile
AH-64 Apache Helicopter
Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser

 

[Perris Calderon]

I wonder what cheneys voting record was, as is demonstrated by his own words,,in addition, before the attack, president bush refused to increase defense spending

these are new times j79

 

[j79zlr]

Seriously Perris, I'm sick of arguing this, but the Democrats should have picked a more middle of the road candidate and this election would be alot closer than it is, maybe even winnable for you. Jospeh Lieberman would have been my choice, Kerry is far too left.

 

[gonaads]

Oh hell, who cares... just go out and vote on Nov 2nd.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Seriously Perris, I'm sick of arguing this, but the Democrats should have picked a more middle of the road candidate and this election would be alot closer than it is, maybe even winnable for you. Jospeh Lieberman would have been my choice, Kerry is far too left.

j79, no matter who the democrats fielded, the right wing spin machine would have done the same thing to that candidate, and you would be saying the same thing

now, this president has proven what his ability to lead is, and what has happened to this country because of his decisions

ask yourself, cause this is an easy one...do you think if you had his position, you couldn't have done better?

I'm pretty sure there is no American that doesn't think there were better decisions to be made, first in defending this nation as he should have, like the other presidents did with similar information, then in defending this nation against those that attacked us instead of trying to attack countries he knew weren't involved, then waiting as long as he did when finally action was taken, and then in mounting an offensive against terrorists that are and were known and of immediate concern, instead of deleting the forces to areas of less concern...I'm pretty sure no body is happy with any of that, and no one is happy at how the good will the world had toward America been squandered and turned into this vile hate.

now, you mustn't fall back on that old \;

"this is hind sight", for two reasons.

fist, this isn't hind sight, this was his councel...he chose paths different then his council, and he was informed of the results with precise accuracy before he made his decisions, so no one can say this is hind sight

but even if you want to give him that latitude;

hind sight is the measure of a president and his performance...this president surely fails at every measure of hind sight as well

 

[Xie]

Oh hell, who cares... just go out and vote on Nov 2nd.

Agreed .. seems pretty much everyone has there mind made up and is going to go with who they want no matter what. At this point I think I would vote a monkey into the white house and feel I have made a safer America then voting for Bush.

 

[Jewelzz]

At this point I think I would vote a monkey into the white house and feel I have made a safer America then voting for Bush.

You're going to vote for SPeedY_B? :blink:

 

[rotjong]

Agreed .. seems pretty much everyone has there mind made up and is going to go with who they want no matter what. At this point I think I would vote a monkey into the white house and feel I have made a safer America then voting for Bush.

... and I'd pick that monkey before I picked a slug, an amoeba, a parasite, or flesh eating bacteria. I'd pick any of the previously listed over Kerry, as well. Hmmm... flesh eating bacteria is an interesting choice, though...

I won't debate points because as has already been said... it's pointless. As you said people have already made up their minds.

The main issue here, that I see, is too many assumptions have been made. I'm not talking about assumptions pertaining to the candidates. I'm speaking of assumptions about those who have an inclination to vote for one candidate or another.

Just make sure you get your @ss to the polls on Nov 2nd if you are an eligible US citizen!

rotjong

 

[PseudoKiller]

I enjoy having a defense budget that spends billions on missles and the like to destroy a tent in the middle of a desert from 500 milles away. Seems like a fair trade for the $$$.

 

[ThePatriot]

j79, no matter who the democrats fielded, the right wing spin machine would have done the same thing to that candidate, and you would be saying the same thing

now, this president has proven what his ability to lead is, and what has happened to this country because of his decisions

ask yourself, cause this is an easy one...do you think if you had his position, you couldn't have done better?

I'm pretty sure there is no American that doesn't think there were better decisions to be made, first in defending this nation as he should have, like the other presidents did with similar information, then in defending this nation against those that attacked us instead of trying to attack countries he knew weren't involved, then waiting as long as he did when finally action was taken, and then in mounting an offensive against terrorists that are and were known and of immediate concern, instead of deleting the forces to areas of less concern...I'm pretty sure no body is happy with any of that, and no one is happy at how the good will the world had toward America been squandered and turned into this vile hate.

now, you mustn't fall back on that old \;

"this is hind sight", for two reasons.

fist, this isn't hind sight, this was his councel...he chose paths different then his council, and he was informed of the results with precise accuracy before he made his decisions, so no one can say this is hind sight

but even if you want to give him that latitude;

hind sight is the measure of a president and his performance...this president surely fails at every measure of hind sight as well

Here we go again...perris, the "facts" you are trying to push are based on his council of advisors, not his council of controllers. The Presidents Advisors do just that, they advise him. They didn't say, as you are trying to make others believe, that "if you do so and so, such and such will happen". They didn't know. They are not clairvoyant. They advised, and in some scenarios correctly, but it was all just speculation at the time. He was presented with various opinions and scenarios from his advisors and he made decisions based on what he thought was right at the time. He shared those decisions with other parties, i.e. Congress, the JCOS for their input/feasability. Yes, some of those opinions were just as you stated...possible increased terrorism, possible decline of our image in some eyes, etc. But given the information he was presented at the time, he, and every one of his peers, made the decisions that ultimately stood. George Bush alone did not make those decisions. They were made by some of the most intellectual and influential people this country has to offer...Democrat/Republican/Whatever. It is, and always will be "hindsight". Unless, of course, you know of some clairvoyant in the White House...in that case, I stand corrected, and I would like their name so I can get tomorrow nights Big 6 numbers.

Now, if it's facts you want, here you go, hot off the press as of 11 pm Thursday Evening EST : The latest Washington Post-ABC News poll showed Bush with a 53 percent to 37 percent advantage over Democrat John F. Kerry when voters were asked who they think would do a better job handling the situation in Iraq.