Pledge of Allegiance --- Petition

Discussion in 'Green Room' started by G-Money, Jun 27, 2002.

  1. G-Money

    G-Money Big Air

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    This is for the people that care..... Im not posting for a big fight that gets the YELLOW Thread Closed .

    Just an FYI for you out there...

    Click the link to sign the Petition.

    Link to petition
     
  2. xsivforce

    xsivforce Prodigal Son Folding Team

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    BTW: It does violate the seperation between church and state. I have no problem with what is trying to be done. Remove the phrase...big deal.
     
  3. Lonman

    Lonman Bleh!

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    2,642
    /finger hovers over delete button.

    Just a note... think about what you say and if you think it MAY be offensive, then it probably will be... use some good judgment. This isn't directed at the poster or the previous postee... this type of thread could generate some heated discussion and I'd like to see it not get out of hand.
     
  4. G-Money

    G-Money Big Air

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    Understand....... that is way I put this at the beginning of the post.

    " This is for the people that care..... Im not posting for a big fight that gets the YELLOW Thread Closed . "

    Thanks.....

    If you feel you need to kill the thread then do so.......

    No harm done !!!!!
     
  5. G-Money

    G-Money Big Air

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    Hey I have an idea... close the thread so people can still read but not post.....

    Hows that for an idea ????
     
  6. Lonman

    Lonman Bleh!

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    2,642
    I have no problem with the topic. I just wanted to let folks know to be careful was all. Personally, I don't voice my opinions on religion and politics here, much. ;)
     
  7. G-Money

    G-Money Big Air

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    :cool:

    understand !!!
     
  8. Iceman

    Iceman Moderator

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    2,695
    I'm sorry while I respect Famine's personal feelings, as an agnostic person this Pledge of Allegiance --- Petition offends the hell out of me.

    I'm not saying close the thread, or delete the thread, but in my opinion, this thread doesn't belong here. But I respect the the freedon of speech issue here. so let it stay

    Just my two cents worth, and I would like for nobody to flame anybody over this issue. It's a matter of personal choice. :)
     
  9. damnyank

    damnyank I WILL NOT FORGET 911

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Petal, Mississippi
    Not trying to flame anyone or anything - but just a thought - since the original did not include "those two words"!

    As a schoolboy, one of Red Skelton's teachers
    explained the words and meaning of the
    Pledge of Allegiance to his class.
    Skelton later wrote down, and eventually recorded,
    his recollection of this lecture.
    It is followed by an observation of his own.

    I - - Me; an individual; a committee of one.
    Pledge - - Dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self-pity.
    Allegiance - - My love and my devotion.
    To the Flag - - Our standard; Old Glory; a symbol of Freedom; wherever she waves there is respect, because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts, Freedom is everybody's job.
    United - - That means that we have all come together.
    States of America- - Individual communities that have united into forty-eight great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose. All divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose, and that is love for country.
    And to the Republic - - a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people; and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people.
    For which it stands
    One Nation - meaning, so blessed by God.
    Indivisible - - Incapable of being divided.
    With Liberty - - Which is Freedom; the right of power to live one's own life, without threats, fear, or some sort of retaliation.
    And Justice - - The principle, or qualities, of dealing fairly with others.
    For All - which means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine.

    And now, boys and girls, let me hear you
    recite the Pledge of Allegiance:

    I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America,
    and to the Republic, for which it stands;
    one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

    Since I was a small boy, two states have
    been added to our country,
    and two words have been added to the Pledge of
    Allegiance:

    Under God.

    Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer,
    and that would be eliminated from schools, too?

    --Red Skelton

    I am proud to be an American, and as a retired member of the USAF - I can live with either - my goal - just make sure everyone knows the Pledge - with or without those two words - to me don't matter!

    God Bless the USA!
     
  10. xsivforce

    xsivforce Prodigal Son Folding Team

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    Location:
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    I am agnostic as well Iceman38.


    Good point catch23.
     
  11. da rock

    da rock Guest

    i signed the pledge and did so with pride!
     
  12. seeme

    seeme Guest

    yeah, it was President Dwight Eisenhower who added those famous words: "under God" in 1954 saying he hoped it would "strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war".
     
  13. GraveLayer

    GraveLayer Guest

    Catch ole buddy!
    I am a christian.
    God gave us free will.
    You beleive what you want thats fine by me and fine by God I'm sure.

    Everyone does realize that the under God part was added back in the 50's right?
     
  14. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

    Messages:
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    Location:
    new york
    the only thing that offends me is the statement "for people who care"

    that's begging the question, isn't it?...here's what I mean...I'm a patriot of the highest order...I believe in the things that this country was founded on, and I believe the fathers of this country had an enlightenment that can only come from the (in my opinion) heavens...

    Some of the things our fathers put on parchment, they had no idea would be as important as the future came to prove.

    The separation of church and state is one of these things...

    let me tell you something...when religion has a place in political policy, you get the taliban...you get absolute power over those that are patriots, and those that also love their lord.

    As we all know, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    when our forefathers put pen to parchment, they wrote the wise words, these words are exactly what make this a god fearing country, and be assured, these words are the words that help to make this nation as powerfully patriotic as it is...because all walks of life are represented, not a select few...our forefathers wrote "religion has no place in these, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

    our pledge of allegiance was around long before the words "under god" was inserted...and not by the original author, I might add...and AGAIN, only 45 years ago.

    The courts decision is correct...why would anyone want to alienate those patriots that do not believe in god?

    This country loves all of the patriots that subscribe to this nation.

    It's a mistake to force as public policy anything that has to do god, or religion...those of us that believe on the holiest, believe that he doesn't want his will forced on anyone...he wants a persons choice to be a choice

    thank you...thankyou very much

    perris
     
  15. Grinder714

    Grinder714 Guest

    I disagree with 90% of you people in this forum on this issue, But I defend your right to post it.


    And Famine, thanks for the post.....I'm signing. Even though it has been all but overturned.

    :D

    -Grinder
     
  16. xsivforce

    xsivforce Prodigal Son Folding Team

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    Location:
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    Well put dealer and catch23.
     
  17. seeme

    seeme Guest

    :) i beat you to that fact! see my earlier post!
     
  18. Blyx

    Blyx Guest

    I agree Catch...I'm Christian and believe heavily in our God, but I'll be damned (no pun intended:D ) if my beliefs which are to cherish all life and yadee yadee yah are used to surpress others who believe differently than I do by making them recite words counter to their beliefs. I wonder, how would those who are christian react if it were the words, under Allah, or something similar in debate at this time? hmmm

    Anyway, my two cents worth...thanks again Catch, Perris.

    Blyx
     
  19. damnyank

    damnyank I WILL NOT FORGET 911

    Messages:
    2,359
    Location:
    Petal, Mississippi
    How about it???

    We all actually acted like mature adults and stated our cases in an adult manner and did not really "flame" anyone or anyone's beliefs - we all acted pretty "adult like"!

    I think ya'll (we all) deserve a pat on the back!

    :cool: :cool:

    Keep up the good work ya'll!!!
     
  20. toric19

    toric19 OSNN Addict

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    A Bit Of Clarity..........

    FIRST AND FOREMOST:
    I would just like to clarify a few things that have been said in this thread, as to prevent anyone from getting false information:

    To start off with, the pledge we say now is different from the original (not just the God part).

    It was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (A Baptist Minister) as an international peace pledge. Bellamy hoped that all the republics, on their peace day, would recite it as a pledge to their flag.

    The pledge as originally wirtten:

    I Pledge Allegiance,
    To my flag.
    And to the republic,
    For which it stands,
    One nation,
    Indivisible,
    With liberty and justice for all.

    Between 1923 and 1924, The American Legion and the Daughters of America wanted to make it mandatory in schools, and thought that it was too general, so they changed "to my flag" to "to the flag, of the United States of America".

    In 1942 Congress passed a law making the Pledge of Allegiance part of the official flag-raising ritual.
    They also changed the original salute from a military salute to the salute we use now, the right hand over the heart

    The phrase "under God" was added in 1954 by Congress (not just Eisenhower) in response to a two-year campaign led by the Knights of Columbus.

    ----------------------------------
    Now, as to my two cents: I believe that the court was wrong to rule that the pledge should be banned from public schools just because of the phrase "under God" the pledge should be mandatory in schools, but the "under God" phrase should be removed. It is not necessary, and it certainly does offend some people who are not christian. It was added, and it can be removed. It may have been a right thing to add in 1954, but with so many different beliefs in this country now, I feel it is no longer valid.
    To sum it up simply:

    keep it in the schools, just remove "under God"