Piracy, victimless crime??

Discussion in 'Green Room' started by Hematic, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. Hematic

    Hematic Guest

    OK. Im curious to see how the rest of you feel on this subject. I "surmise" from most of the posts here that not quite "all" of you, got all your software through Best Buy :eek: So i wanted to know how everyone feels about piracy.

    Lets split it up.

    1)Movies and Music


    3)Books and all sorts of assorted crap.

    Personally as far as movies and music go, those industries run on such a high profit margin that they have as much of a hard time trying to justify their 1000% profit as i do trying to find their files in good quality. It cant cost a music label more than a dollar to make a cd. And they sell them for $17-$20?? Large corporations get by on a 2 to 5 percent profit margin,IE walmart. What makes these people think they can charge that much?

    Software is a different story though, since theoretically you could Write your OWN software, really its hard to justify stealing it from companies. I am of course by no means saying all of my software is legit, nor am i saying it isnt. Just curious on the opinions of the masses.
  2. Teddy

    Teddy Boogie Nights...!

    London, UK
    "It cant cost a music label more than a dollar to make a cd."..

    True, but its not simply a case of chucking songs on to a CD and mass producing them. Think about all the people that go in to making a CD...producers, sound technicians...the artist!! They've gotta be paid.

    "What makes these people think they can charge that much? "...

    The fact that we (the consumers) pay it. They can charge whatever the hell they want to. They dont force people to buy their CDs.

    "Software is a different story though, since theoretically you could Write your OWN software"...

    You could write your OWN songs too. :)

    There is not real way to justify downloading music, films, software..you can try but it is only done to make you feel better when you're doing it. ;)
  3. Geffy

    Geffy Moderator Folding Team

    United Kingdom
    I dont condone it, but music wise I will say that while the recording industry is biotching that they are loosing sales, this is actually only the "singles" sales, the overall "albums" sales have increased. This is mainly due to people downloading a song they hear, downloading a few extra ones by the same artist and then liking it and springing for the Album CD
  4. SPeedY_B

    SPeedY_B I may actually be insane.

    Midlands, England
    Music costs a LOT to make ;)

    My personal view on piracy is.. it happens, it'll never stop, whatever companies try always gets "cracked" or beaten.
    If people wish to pirate material go ahead, if people wish to go to the store and buy things, go ahead.
    It's one of those things that is a preference, if someone refuses to pirate something, they will never change, and vice versa for those who do.
    I do think that if you genuinely respect the artist you should buy their music, and the same goes for software, if you pirate something, then use it once, lets face it if you spent $300 on it, it would have been a waste, if you use it every day/week then pay for it, you obviously get your moneys worth.

    But as always, piracy is a subject that is dependant on a person and different situations, everyone will have a (very?) different opinion on this.

    Each to their own.
  5. Evil Marge

    Evil Marge I Rule Political User

    We currently pay 17.5% vat on CD's . Thats bloody scandalous.No wonder people download it of the net for free.

    More than 1,200 international stars including Sir Elton John, Chris de Burgh and Andrea Bocelli have signed a petition to have the VAT on CD's reduced.

    A recent survey for the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) found that 60% of people over the age of 16 would buy more CDs if they were made cheaper.
  6. SPeedY_B

    SPeedY_B I may actually be insane.

    Midlands, England
    I never (or rarely at least) buy CD's .. Vinyls for me :D
  7. Evil Marge

    Evil Marge I Rule Political User

    Good old vinyl :)
  8. Black-Syth

    Black-Syth Comalies

    It depends for me. Im not going to buy a cd with one good song on it if i can download it in less than a minute...

    As for software, i pirate copies of games occasionally. I dl some to see how they are in case i don't know. If they are fun, ill go out and buy the full version. If not, well... -deletes C&C Renegade- as i was saying...
  9. SPeedY_B

    SPeedY_B I may actually be insane.

    Midlands, England
    Good new vinyl actually :p
  10. Evil Marge

    Evil Marge I Rule Political User

    OK OK New vinyl :p
  11. X-Istence

    X-Istence * Political User

    I get the songs, listen to them and in the cause of evanence i liked the CD so much after some person here sent it to me, so i went out and bought all the other albums by them as well as the one i got pirated.

    But i hate to pay $20 per CD, come on.
  12. Hematic

    Hematic Guest

    I have a collection of over 250 REAL music cd's. But i have many more burned. Most o the burned CD's i have were ones that were lost, or stolen from me. Is it wrong for me to go and recapture what i paid for? I dont think so. There are some artists i support. Jars of Clay, Pearl Jam, Caedmon's Call, and some other assorted bands. I only buy their stuff. But i wont pay $20 bucks for a cd thats only got 3 good songs.
  13. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    Good topic here Hematic. I have 400-500 store-bought CDs, and about 200-300 burned ones. Of the burned ones, only 20 or so are actually full albums... the rest are mixes or bootlegs that are actually legal to own. As far as software is concerned... well, when I graduate from college and get a good-paying job, I will buy the software that I use often. I simply can't afford to buy the stuff now, but my justification is that I will eventually.

    Music artists make nothing on single sales... so I say download the single if you want it. If you download a full album and like it, then go buy it to support the artist. I am in the process of buying up the burned albums I like. If you really want to support an artist, go to there concert and buy some merchandise. It's not cheap for you, but they make some of their best money through ticket and merch sales.
  14. Zedric

    Zedric NTFS Guru Folding Team

    The iTunes initiative is a good thing IMHO. That way you don't have to pay alot of money for songs you don't want (usually >50% of an album). Of course the artists (some anyway) say that this is bad and ruins the work of art that is an album. No kidding? Now they can't sell the crappy songs. :p

    RIAA on their hand hasn't done anyone any favors with their P2P war. They (very apparently) do not stand for the consumers, nor the artists. They only do this for themselves. Their constant copy protectioning of CD:s only strikes back at the artists since noone wants to buy a CD that they most likely can't play in one or more of their CD-players.

    Customers returning CD:s again and again isn't profitable either in any way. There are acctually non-proteced versions of some CD:s you can get if you have problems with the protected ones. Then what's the point

    It's all so silly and narrow minded of the RIAA. They don't know what they are doing, and for some reason they can't seem to see the consequences.

    That's my $0.02 anyway. :)
  15. Hematic

    Hematic Guest

    Muzikool, Its not really a justification to say you will buy it later. I mean if i went out and stole a car with the intent to buy one just like it in 4 or 5 years when i got the money, thats not exactly fair. I find piracy to be kind of odd because it seems almost natural and most everyone does it, but its quite hard to justify.
  16. Un4gIvEn1

    Un4gIvEn1 Moderator

    Don't have any clue where you came up with thinking that bootlegs are legal to own. They definately are not. The music is the intellectual property of the band that creates it (well, not always 100% true, but you understand). Just because the music was not professionally recorded and released does not make it legal.

    What I find hard to believe is that Apple is able to sell songs for $.99 a piece and MILLIONS of them, and there are people who are complaining about paying $15 for a CD with 15 songs on it! Don't be cheap.

    On the other hand, I despise bands that take a stand aginst their fans, such as Metallica. I loved Metallica, and I own almost every album. But, because of the controversy that they have caused I refuse to support them. I will listen to them on the radio, and I will listen to the CDs that I already own, but not one more penny of my money will go to those selfish, greedy, washed-up SOBs! Their new CD is crap anyways. I am not saying that she is good, but look at Britney Spears. Her music came out in the digital age, where they could easily be downloaded, yet she has a net worth of over 150 MILLION dollars. SOMEONE had to have bought her CDs. If you produce music that people want to hear then they will pay for it! That's a thought.

    But what do I know... I'm just a consumer. A quarter of my money that I spend on a CD goes to the agencies that govern them, and yet they seek me out to punish me? I have over 5,000 MP3s on my computer. Do you know why? My computer is my "juke-box." Instead of having to swap out my CDs, I just rip them to MP3 and then use my player (DJ2000) to listen to them. YET... the fact that I own MP3s, OH... that must make me a pirate, huh? NO YOU STUPID FOOLS! I purchased the rights to listen to that song. I can have a million copies of it, as long as they are all for MY use. So, do I have to buy a CD for my house and a CD for my car? I like to have the music in both places and I hate having to tote the CDs around all the time.

    The RIAA is not concerned about anything but money. Think about it... There have been quite a few studies that show that if they would lower the prices of CDs just a little bit they would get more support from the consumers. They continue to battle to "end piracy" yet they refuse to lessen their chunk. If the consumers are the pirates then what's the RIAA? The raging sea.

    One problem with people though is that they believe when they purchase a CD that they own the songs. NOPE! You do not own the songs. You own the right to listen to the songs. Just as with software. You never OWN the software, you own the license to use it. Movies are the same way. I dred the day that to watch a DVD you have to put in a Product ID, or press your thumbprint on a remote just to "authenticate" so that you can watch a movie.

    Well, those are my thoughts...

    Copywrite © 2003 - Don Freeman
    The information above is provided with no warranty either expressed or implied. It is the intellectual property of the author and may not be used in any way without express permission.

    HAHA... I couldn't resist.:D
  17. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    I called it a justification because that's exactly what it is. I don't equivocate justification with fairness or legality. Justifying something usually means that it's wrong, so admitting my justification is like me admitting that I know it's wrong. Make sense? :)
  18. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    So you know where my thinking came from... some bands have what they call an "open taping policy," in which it is legal to record and trade, not sell, a live show. Check out etree.org to see for yourself.
  19. syn

    syn long live xp0!

    College Park, MD
    down with kazaa, too many people use it, and it slows down the network at my school.

    they actually just installed a packet interpreter for just p2p programs which doesn't allow the usage of them. yay umd!

    i work for one of the IT departments on campus and lately, the RIAA has been cracking down a lot on Kazaa users. i've had to go tell people to delete everything off their computer or face charges...of course it won't stop but its a start
  20. Un4gIvEn1

    Un4gIvEn1 Moderator

    muzikool: I have NEVER been to a concert that has allowed that, and I have been to quite a few...

    Linking Park
    Stabbing Westward
    Static X
    Nine Inch Nails
    3 Doors Down
    Adema (3 times)
    Apex Theory

    Just to name a few, off the top of my head...
    None of those bands allow taping...