PayPal Seller Protection Policy - Learn From my COSTLY Mistake

Discussion in 'Garage Sale' started by kcnychief, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. kcnychief

    kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Political User Folding Team

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    Sigh.

    I have been an eBay member since 1999, using PayPal pretty much since it came along (can't remember exact details). I'd like to think I'm rather well established in both, with an eBay feedback of 1462, (99.9% positive) and a Business Account in PayPal dealing with 817 Verified Buyers to this point.

    Everything for the most part has been smooth, up until last week when I received a VERY disturbing e-mail. Apparently, someone that won one of my auctions, paid via an Instant Transfer using his bank account. Since this money is immediately available in my PayPal account, the item was shipped on the way to the seller and both of us were happy. About 3 days after I shipped it, I got an e-mail that said the transaction was under review due to a potential chargeback against the buyer's credit card (used a debit card). I called PayPal, and they said that the funds were not available in his bank. So I'm like "how is this my problem, I want my money!" (of course, much nicer than that).

    I was then told that all I had to do was send in the information I had, which would be the address I sent to (His Confirmed Address), When it was Shipped, The service I used, and the tracking number. OK, easy, and done - sent in to PayPal.

    About two days later I got an e-mail saying that because I don't have signature confirmation, there is nothing they can do. The seller protection policy clearly states that any TRANSACTION over $250.00 needs to have signature confirmation, as well as proof of delivery for the seller to be protected in cases like this. I tried to point out that the policy isn't very clear, because the actual item sold for $246, and was only over $250 after shipping and insurance. I had tracking, proof of delivery, just no signature.

    All they could tell me was "sorry, take it up with the buyer". Oh this will be fun, someone bought something off me, has the item, I already left feedback for him, and he's going to RUN to his PC to send that much money to me? Of Course!

    So, I sent the guy an e-mail, 3 days go by and nothing. I get his contact info from ebay, call on Saturday, leave a message explaining the situation to his "nephew". Saturday goes by, still nothing. I call Sunday and talk to the guy. Here is how the conversation goes:

    Me: "Hi, You purchased something from me and your PayPal payment has bounced, I would like to discuss how we can remedy this situation."

    Him: "Come Again?"

    Me: Pretty much just repeating myself.

    Him: "oookkk"

    Me: "How can we resolve this in a timely manner?"

    Him: "Well all I can really do is re-send the money"

    Me: (thinking to myself - no **** sherlock!) "That works for me. I will re-send you the invoice so you have it handy."

    Him: "OK, but I have been having computer problems (yah right), send it to another e-mail address"

    Me: "OK, got it, I'll send it right away, thanks!"

    So that was Sunday, today is Tuesday, still nothing.

    Each day that goes by I lose hope. I really don't know if there is anything I can do. All said and done, it appears I'll be out the product and $254, but I'm still trying to appeal with PayPal and find out if they can help me. Kinda pissed that over all the money they get from me in fees, they are turning their backs on me because I am $4 over the SPP Policy and the flaw is in how their policy is defined.

    Lesson learned, anything over $250 gets Signature Confirmation. I'll keep this updated, but learn from this expensive mistake.
     
  2. VenomXt

    VenomXt Blame me for the RAZR's Folding Team

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    sucks keep us posted?
     
  3. LordOfLA

    LordOfLA Godlike!

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    paypal dont help people if they can find someway of twisting their guidlines to their advantage.

    I thought everyone that used paypal knew this by now.
     
  4. kcnychief

    kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Political User Folding Team

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    OK I just talked to PayPal again. Apparently when I last called about it on 02/03, they are submitting an appeal for me to the SPP that can review the details. If they approve my appeal, they will get my money and then go after his account accordingly. Long story short, their headache, not mine. It takes 7-10 business days at the longest, which could take up until February 16th.

    I asked what other options I would have available, and they suggested I could report him to local authorities, Internet Crime, etc. All well and good, but nothing that will guarentee my money, but will guarentee to waste a TON of my time.

    So, I figured I would try to call him again. He picks up, and here is how that convo went:

    Me: "Hi, is XXXXX there?"

    Him: "This is him"

    Me: "Hi, This is Derek XXXX, I wanted to check on the status of the payment for that XXXX you bought off me"

    Him: "I'm working on it right now"

    Me: "That's good, because I am running out of time and options and I would ratner not take this to the next level"

    Him: "Meaning?"

    Me: "Well, essentially since you have my item and I don't have any funds for it, you are commiting theft and fraud. I could report you to the XX State Attorney General's Office, the Internet Crime and Fraud Divisions, and even Small Claims court. So as I said, what does working on it mean?"

    Him: When I get my check.

    Me: When is that?

    Him: About a week and a half.

    Me: OK dude, well you have had my item for over a week and a half now. You shouldn't be buying **** when you don't have the money for it. This isn't over, and the crying baby in the background will be the LEAST of your worries when this is all said and done

    <click>

    OK, I got a little mad towards the end, but this pile of puke is getting me peeved!

    Will do, it's a good way to vent :)

    I have never really had a big problem up to this point. Since they are reviewing my appeal, I will at least for now reserve judgement until I see how they decide things.
     
  5. mlakrid

    mlakrid OSNN BASSMASTER Political User Folding Team

    KC,

    WOW,that sucks, I dont know how stubborn you are; however, I can honestly say that my stubbornness has saved me several times.

    Because of how stubborn I am only ONE time did I have to pay more than what I thought was fair: I had to pay the shipping for an item, which I admitted was my own fault: I ordered memory in a corsair TWINX kit, the problem was I ordered the wrong pin count.

    SO... I call the website up they say:
    No problem we will put a hold on the completion of this, and you RMA the item, we refund you the entire price.

    My response: Great whats the RMA, obviously I need the memory anyway.
    Will I get charged a re-stocking fee or shipping?

    Their response: not if you re-purchase from us...

    So three weeks go by, they have the item I see that from the tracking information on Fedex.

    Ok so WHERE is my chargeback?

    The next call:
    Me: yes I am calling about my RMA # umptysquat.

    THem: Ok, it has been recieved, but your new order has not been processed.

    Me: Thats because I havent ordered it yet, I want my refund so that I know I am getting refunded the entire price.

    Them: You will dont worry we do this all the time...

    Me: ok can I get your name>?

    THem : yea its bob blah blah...

    Me: Ok thanks bob!

    I ordered the correct memory, get a notification that a chargeback has happened and that my new order is complete.

    Three days later Bingo bango I have my new memory and think all is well...

    Until that is I check my account and notice the chareg back amount is short by $16 and change, and that ironically the shipping charge was $16 and change. Needless to say I reported it as incorrect, and even though I had Bob's real name and sales rep information they could not help me.

    In your case however, you are protected by civil litigation, he electronically signed saying he had the funds etc to pay for said item, and now he has a decision...

    BY LAW, he must:
    A) Pay you what is owed
    or
    B) Send you back the item.

    I would also like to add that Paypal and/or Ebay should step in and resolve an issue like this.

    I had a similar instance back when Paypal had the money-back guarantee and they stood behind it, so I think if you are persistent enough, they will help you too...

    I hope this information helps you Derek... Sorry to hear it man... Really.

    EDIT: obviously you learned what I was typing when you were responding LOL...

    Mike A!
     
  6. kcnychief

    kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Political User Folding Team

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    I'm going to sit on it until I hear the results of the appeal by the 16th, don't really have the time to do much else atm.

    Thanks for the advice Mike A, much appreciated.
     
  7. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Paypal SUX...
    I am involved in a 700 dollar holding of funds because i have 3 accounts.
    Been like this for 3 months, and about 15 phone calls.
    It is ridiculous, i will never use paypal again.
     
  8. kcnychief

    kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Political User Folding Team

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    With all due respect, that is probably your own fault since you have more than one account. While you can have more than one account, they each have to have unique bank and CC information, as well as unique e-mail addresses.

    Are you sending money back and forth between your own accounts?
     
  9. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    No, i do not send money back and forth.
    Yes they are diff cc info,
    Yes they are diff email addresses,
    Yes diff Bank info,

    Apparently paypal has a rule that you can not have more than 2 accounts/ssn.

    So...
    They let me get a third account, and then stole my money.
     
  10. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    Sucks so bad dude :/

    Even if you don't end up with any reimbursement...I think you should look at this with an "abundance" mentality. (I know, easier said that done)

    In the big scheme of things it's just a bit of money and won't really affect your life.

    **** the dude that stole your stuff - his gain in the short term, but your gain in the long term (it seems like you've already learned from your mistake).
     
  11. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    You are the one that failed to read their rules. Those same rules you agreed to abide by when you signed up. Take some responsibility.
     
  12. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Been trying to buy stuff on ebay recently (well before xmas) via Paypal and got rejected several times because they were scared of fraud.

    Just wish there was a way I could elevate my reputation on it.
     
  13. LordOfLA

    LordOfLA Godlike!

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    sell cheap stuff :)

    buy a few 99p ebooks and resell them :)
     
  14. Aprox

    Aprox Moderator Political User

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    You got the guys address right? Make a visit... and make sure he gets the message that something "Unfortunate" could happen. :p

    But really, that sucks. I have never liked Paypal, they screw around with you and make you jump through hoops before they will help out. Maybe with any luck the guy will come around and send you the money?
     
  15. lancer

    lancer There is no answer! Political User Folding Team

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    i had a few issues like that myself, sold a v/card to someone and their payment somehow didn't go through and they just kept the merchandise, even though i threatened to kill their whole family if he didn't pay.... guess the guy didn't believe me.
     
  16. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    You should follow up on it, Bring your machine gun :)

    Uh...
    No
    its not stated there...
    Its that my ssn is on there but can only be on two...
    Don't try to turn this on me, paypal is a GIANT company, and it is committing fraud and stealing money everyday.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2007
  17. kcnychief

    kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Political User Folding Team

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    I'm sure they didn't "steal" your money, but without knowing the exact details I will reserve judgement. They can't hold onto your money legally unless they suspect, and have viable evidence that you were committing, or planned on commiting fraudalent activity.

    Grandmaster is correct, it is clear as day in their rules that each person is only allowed to have one Personal and Business OR Premier. The reasons why you are even allowed to have two is because of the fee structure, and you could use them for different purposes. There is no legit reason to have more than one of each account, or to have Business and Premier. Regardless of what account types you had, they probably suspected you had ill intent. Otherwise, why else would you create three? I'm not taking sides, but you should try to contact them, explain your situation, and get your money back. I sure wouldn't be as calm as you if I was out $700, you should see how ripped I've been over just $250!

    I have learned, painfully. I made a lot of mistakes growing up (no one is perfect), but they have all put me in a better place compared to where I could be, and I am better off and wiser from it. I appreciate your advice, and will take your words to heart. I hope it works out for the best, but you can bet sure as **** I'll NEVER make that mistake again.

    Did they ever give detailed reasons as to why? Did your address match on your banking information as well as your shipping information? Sometimes companies will reject even if you have a 6 digit ziip code and your bank has a 4 digit zip code. I know postal codes are 6 digits (letters and numbers) in the UK, at least I think, but that's an example.

    If not, I would try to call their main number and ask how you could do just that - raise your rep - regardless of their stance on their policies, for the most part their customer service is pretty good.

    I'll pretend you didn't say the first paragraph, because any threat of violence is a crime and I'm not going to stoop to his level - especially not over such little money. While it does indeed suck, there are many more important things in life. Also, I'm not going to hold my breath on this deadbeat paying, but who knows - when he gets his check in 1.5 weeks (moron), who knows.

    Would you seriously take anyone seriously who threatened to kill your whole family over something on eBay?

    Thanks for all the support guys, but let's be realistic - what he is doing is fraud, it is illegal, and no threats to him, his family, or his dog (made that part up) will be considered :)
     
    Vanquished likes this.
  18. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Well...
    I did explain it to them.

    The reason why i had 3 accounts is because when signing up for a account.
    It says that the regular accounts have no fee on accepting money...
    So, i had the PS3 money sent to that account, then i got an email saying i cant accept such a large sum of money on a basic account, i need to upgrade. In a panic for fear of loss of money, I upgrade to a premier account. Then, they lock all three accounts and won't give me my money.

    So i'm like: ok... Ill just do what they say, well i did. four times over now.
    And still nothing.
    I have sent them a fax of my Social Security Card, My Driver's License, My Credit Card Statement, and a signed Affidavit saying it is my SSN...

    You be the judge, should i get my money back?
    My vote is yes...
     
  19. kcnychief

    kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Political User Folding Team

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    Yeah regular accounts with no fee are only allowed to receive a maximum of $500 a month.
     
  20. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Mmm...
    I am so pissed off :(