Paging File speed :-D

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Dirk Diggler, Mar 4, 2003.

  1. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Guest

    Hi dealer :p
    how about this:
    Fact 1: Windows will start to Page out long before we run out of RAM.
    Fact 2: RAM is pretty cheap these days and is getting cheaper by the day.

    Here's the deal ( pun intended )

    I buy three gigs of RAM knowing full well Windows will only use an absolute maximum of two gigs. I then use one of those three gigs as a RAM drive and put the Paging File onto it.

    Question: Would my system fly like a bat out of hell ?
     
  2. Daedalus

    Daedalus Guest

    At last, someone has the same idea as me! I'm going to build a new PC in may/june, and was going to fit about 2gig+ of ram, then use a ramdrive to store my pagefile, temporary files, and IE cache.

    In theory, because Windows will NEVER use up ALL available RAM, it should speed up the computer (and this would increase security as all traces of previous activity would be erased each re-boot).

    Any ideas whether it'd work?

    Daedalus
     
  3. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Guest

    I currently use a RAM drive to store my History, Temporary Internet Files and Recent, and it seems to work pretty well. I used to have my Cookies on there as well but that became a pain in the royal when I had to log on to web sites every time I shut down my system and rebooted.
     
  4. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    that dd is perfect

    assuming of course that you don't want to enlist the aid of a microsoft utility that will allow xp to use more then 2 gigs, (which does exist)

    but I think your idea is going to work...if you could actually get the os to both use the 2 gigs, and the additional 1 gig ram disc.
     
  5. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    now, I'm going to use this oportunity to prove to one and all without any doubt that is counterproductive to have a pagefile below the amount of ram.

    and this is so simple, I'm surprised I didn't think to invoke this proof before today;

    if you open taskmanager, and go to performance;

    you will notice on the left, a gragh which tells pagefile useage.

    now, by this time everyone knows that this gragh is potential useage, and not actual useage...there is never hardrive used before ram...it's the amount of pagefile that has a potential to be used.

    ok

    now, pick one of your larger programs that is launched and close it down while watching the pagefile useage gragh\

    at the same time, watch the mbs of ram useage.

    in most cases, you will notice that the pagefile useage will lower when you close the program down a similar figure to the ram that you are no longer using for the program....

    ha...sometimes, the pagefile useage will actually lower even more then the amount of ram you are using for the program!!! this will be for the working set which in sophisticated programs will be larger then the ram being used, (and thus, you need a bigger pagefile then ram, not a lower pagefile then ram)

    and there it is

    simple proof that anyone can see for themselfs, without theory...actual pracitcal application and implications involved with a proper running vm os

    xp wants to create a pagefile address for every bit of ram that you are using.(at least 1 address area, and possibly more for the rest of the working set, and if you manage to use the majority of ram installed)

    if you plan on using all of your ram, xp needs to create an address for every bit of ram in use

    one gig of ram being used, one gig or more of pagefile useage

    too simple isn't it

    if you don't plan on using all of your ram, you have worthless ram, and you don't need a proper pagelfile...same thing as having 80 gig harddrive, and not using all of it...same thing

    right in your face proof that you should never have a smaller pagefile then you have an amount of ram....1.5 at least is prudent

    if there is not enough address area for ram, the excellant memory management that everybody says xp has is circumvented...very simple isn't it

    the more ram you need, the bigger the pagefile you need, not the smaller the pagefile you need...if you want your ram used as efficiently as possible

    ta dahhh
     
  6. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    great to see you dd

    I hear you're gettin a broadband connection in a few days...

    you will wonder how you ever suffered the internet without it.

    as far as your ram disc for your temp files.

    I think this will work for everyone that has a small temp intern file, and empties it frequently.

    for those like myself that maintain a large temp file...emptying the file is counterproductive, as it then has to be repoulated everytime I go on the internet.

    this of course defeats the very purpose of the file for me, as I want the information in there, and I don't want to have my os need to re download gifs, images, buttons, etc eveytime I surf, as I am constanly revisiting the same sites, time and time again

    hey...don't be such a starnger buddy

    :)
     
  7. Heeter

    Heeter Overclocked Like A Mother

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    2,732
    That is soo Cool!!

    Gees, it is incredible how much I am learning from this site..... How can I apply this to my setup, especially the Temp Inter File, and the pagefile? I would love to try this out.


    Heeter
     
  8. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    hi heater...glad you are learning...it is fun here isn't it?

    dd will give you the tutorial for ram disc on temp files...for some like me this will be a slowdown, for some it will be a boon...at the expense of making ram unavailable to other uses, and this is a price, so be prudent

    as far as the ram disc for the pagefile, as dd points out, this will slow down the os unless you have a couplea gigs of ram.
     
  9. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Guest

    You have to get hold of a RAM drive, a good free one can be downloaded here:-
    AR RAM Disk

    Once its setup, moving the TIF folder is simplicity itself, Control Panel, Internet Options, Settings, Move Folder.

    Moving the History and others is a tad harder because it means typing addresses in the Registry at these points:-
    HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Explorer/User Shell Folders
    and here:-
    HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Explorer/Shell Folders

    Moving the Paging File is pretty simple:-
    Right-click "My Computer", click "Properties", click "Advanced", click the "Settings" button in the top section. Click the "Advanced" tab, click the "Change" button near the bottom. Highlight where the Paging File currently is and put a spot in "No Paging File" and click "Set". Then highlight the newly created RAM drive, and put a spot in "Custom size". Put the relevent sizes in the two provided boxes and then click "Set". XP will sh!t a brick and say something like "What the bloody hell do you think your doing, stop!" Just ignore the warning and continue, XP will shut down and re-boot and thats it.
     
  10. Heeter

    Heeter Overclocked Like A Mother

    Messages:
    2,732
    Hi Dirk,

    I am actually trying to install the AM ramdisk. I have put the bat file into the start menu. Try to install and reboot to no avail. Windows is not recognizing. It isn't in the add/remove either for me to see if installed. nothing in My computer also. Is there another one I can try? Thanks in advance.....



    Heeter
     
  11. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Guest

    Bat file, what bat file ?
    just unzip the downloaded file click "Setup" and if you inadvertently unticked configure, go to Control Panel and click "Ram Disk" and configure it, no bat file involved.
     
  12. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I am currently reviewing the new SuperSpeed XP 7.0 little confusing compared to the old version!

    The old version basically created a new "HDD" in my computer, this HDD was the RAM Drive and all data was lost when you rebooted.

    This new version you actually have to create a partition that will fit inside your RAM, little strange... but I have a nice 200 meg partition on drive Z now, with my Temp folder and Temporary Internet Files on there. Trying to think of other ways of getting it reviewed ;)
     
  13. Heeter

    Heeter Overclocked Like A Mother

    Messages:
    2,732
    Hi DD,

    Okay I removed the .bat file from the startup (The AR site said to create this file??) I redownloaded the file again. This time it worked. Must of been corrupted the first download.

    For the registry edits, I just type in the Ram drive letter (Z:/History) instead of Local Settings/History? Will this move the folder or do I have to create one in the ramdisk first? 260mg is good enough or do I need more? Ramdisk is not in my Disk Manager, where would I go to reconfigure?

    My Pagefile is sitting on a second HDD already, so I am not moving it to the ramdisk, for now.

    Thanks for everything so far........................


    Heeter
     
  14. canadian_divx

    canadian_divx Canadian_divx

    where are you people that you are seeing ram so cheap, here the price is going up and up for ddr and it is about 240 for a 512mb chip
     
  15. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Guest

    Canadian,
    I just bought half a gig of 2700 for only £50, almost giving it away.

    Heeter,
    You configure the RAM disk in Control Panel. Configure it first, reboot then do all the moving.

    yes Z:\History will be fine (remember its a backslash)
    No need to create any folders, XP will do it for you.

    The size is up to you, mine is set at 60 megs which is fine for me.
     
  16. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I got 2 dimms of 512 crucial ddr 2700 in ;)
    Ordered it late thursday, had it by saturday ;)
     
  17. Mubbers

    Mubbers Shoot! Political User

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    Great thread guys!

    Dealer will be aware of my interest in Pagefles and Ram so I'm pleased to say that my questions have now been answered!

    As we speak I'm checking out a couple of 1 Gig sticks to insert into my machine, then it's time to D/L the ram disk!!

    Excellente'

    One question I'm still not clear on is this maximum RAM issue...

    If my machine has 3 RAM slots and I stick in 3 gig.... will I be able to use 1.5 GB for a ram disk and 1.5 GB for normal memory?

    Is it just that memory over 2 GB can't be used for RAM but could be used for a RAM disk???

    Mubbers
     
  18. j79zlr

    j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Political User

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  19. Heeter

    Heeter Overclocked Like A Mother

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    2,732
    Hi DD,


    Okay everything is cool with the installation, I do have another question, though. I cannot seem to transfer the history folder to the Ramdisk. I have gone into the reg. and tried to modify the settings to the new disk and upon reboot they have reset them selves back as to before. in the User Shell Folder, I changed from
    %USERPROFILE%\Local Settings\History to Z:\History and in the Shell Folder I did the change from
    C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\History to Z:\History is this correct?

    Heeter
     
  20. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of this.

    your internet files are going to be deleted every time you boot...this to me is counter productive

    I use my history files, and keep three days of it

    I visit the same sites every day, so I surely don't want to have to down load gifs, buttons, sigs, etc, every time I turn my computer on.

    my temp files speed me up even when I'm on t1, so I don't want to dowithout them.

    anyway, I don't have enough ram to experiment, but it doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

    now, if there was some way to create a folder which would get these files written to disc on shutdown, and then the folder would repopulate the ram disc on boot, that would be something to look at

    anyway

    carry on