page file

Discussion in 'Windows Desktop Systems' started by canadian_divx, Jul 17, 2002.

  1. canadian_divx

    canadian_divx Canadian_divx

    ok i have a serious problem with pagefile fragmation, i have 896mb or sdram and i would like to know if i can just get rid of the page file becasue it never goes over 250mb, is this a good idea or not, and i ahve tryed a whole bunch of pagefile defragmenters and no luck.

    also my computer does not have flash and everytime i go to the website it downloads it and it works untill i restart then i have to download it agian and do it all over agian, how can i make it sot aht i only have to download it once???
     
  2. allan

    allan Guest

  3. canadian_divx

    canadian_divx Canadian_divx

    wow that really helped thanks for the great info allan
     
  4. allan

    allan Guest

    You're welcome - but stick around - you'll get some conflicting views shortly.
     
  5. dejav00

    dejav00 Guest

    ...

    Yeah...I remember this from way back when in the My Fav. Tweaks Thread...can't remember what exactly it said was bad though... =\
     
  6. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    yes...the information allan posted is absolutely incorrect.

    do not set your page file to a static value, do not set your page file to lower then 1.5 of your ram

    let the system manage your page file...period

    there is absolutely no fragmentation issue with a dynamic page file...PROVEN...AND YOU CAN PROVE IT YOURSELF...

    if your page file is fragmented, it's because you resized the page file yourself, or you increased your ram

    just defrag it with the pagefile defrag program I posted on the free programs thread...let xp manage the file, and forget about it

    if you set the value to what allan posted, I gaurantee to you, you will crash programs eventually... it's just old advice, and it's absolutely not true in xp
     
  7. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    I'm going to cut and copy a post that I made on allans site...the information is self evident, and the only experts that expressed any opinion at all, agree with the post...if you need futher readin, I will supply it for you;

    you can not keep XP from paging, no matter what you do, XP is a paging os...live with it...just kidding

    the OS will find another area to page, or a program will freeze or fail, if you don't have a big enough page file...and that'll be a performance hit

    OK, the fact that the the page file is active, in no sense means that the OS is using page instead of ram.

    the OS is creating addresses for ram, that's it...you'r still using ram.

    the OS is getting ready for the time that you actually use all the ram that you have installed...it correctly assumes that if you've installed allot of ram, you need allot of ram, and it is preparing to speed your OS.

    lowering the page file cannot prevent the paging of this OS, and lowering the page file serves absolutely no usefull purpose...it does, however serve the purpose of slowing your OS if the time ever comes that you actually do use the ram that you've installed.

    now I'll say this part again, and see if I can make myself more clear;

    WHEN THE PAGE FILE IS SET TO ALLOW EXPANSION, EXPANSION WILL NOT OCCUR...that's right, the page file REMAINS STATIC, and there will be no fragmentation whatsoever...UNLESS YOU'VE SET THE PAGE FILE TOO SMALL, or you're about to crash, or freeze a program due to a too small page file...then, to keep you from crashing or freezing the program, the OS will finally expand the file.

    now, obviously, if your page file is constantly resizing, there will be fragmentation in the page file...but the fragmentation is only there because you set the page file too low for your individual use, and therefore, you are in an expanded state,but, the the fragmentation disappears on reboot, UNLESS THE PAGE FILE IS TOO SMALL AGAIN, AND RESIZES AGAIN.

    When you reboot, any expanded pagefile returns to the pre-expansion value, and all extents other than those for the default size are gone... if before expansion the file had one extent, and was contiguous, it will be contiguous on the boot. But even if you don't believe that part, it doesn't change this fact;

    , as long as the page file is set to the proper value, till the need arises...in essence, the system will never expand it, and it will remain contiguous even if expansion is enabled.

    so, expansion is an absolute, (in my book anyway) plus, with no downside...as I said, even if fragmentation does remain once the file is expanded...as I'd rather be able to use my programs then not...now, as a practical matter, I have forced expansion, and tested fragmentation on reboot...you can do the same...fragmentation won't be there...BUT EVEN IF IT IS...IT DOES NOT NEGATE THE NECESSITY OF A DYNAMIC PAGE FILE.

    ...please do not accept old information for the reason that it's old information...

    old information is especially prone to being obsolete to current technology

    read for yourself

    I'm going to add this PS;

    I'm absolutely positive at least some of you are loading programs more slowly, or crashing or freezing them when you need not, because you've set the page file too low, and have not allowed expansion...media player, ie, whatever
     
  8. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    and to take this further, you hear people crashing ie, and media player all the time...these are the people that have static page files...it will surely happen less with the correct settings
     
  9. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    and here is how you can absolutely prove to yourself fragmentation is not an issue...just incase you don't follow the reasoning behind the logic of it not even mattering even if there is fragmentation...

    to prove framentation does not occur;

    ...enable expansion on your box...see if you can force expansion...it will be very difficult to do, almost impossible if you have the file set to the proer value...which is exactly the reason not to lower it, and exactly the reason expansion is never an issue...expansion only occurs when the os is starving for air.

    if you can't force expansion, (I couldn't without lowering my page file size)then, as an experiment, set the page file very low, but not so low, that it'll be expanding on reboot, then defragment it, make sure it's contigious

    try to force expansion again...when you've accomplished that, run the box for a while, and reboot without doing anything to the page file

    check to see if the fragmentation remained...on my box, the fragmentation dissappears...but lots of things happen on my box, that don't happen on others, so please let me know.
    If I am wrong about the page file not remaining contigous, I will stop saying it

    but that's not the point I'm making...the point is that fragmentation will not happen if the page file is large enough regardless, as the page file only resizes when it absolutely needs to, and that's quite a good feature...that's the real point I'm making...the other points have nothing to do with my real point...my real point is the following;

    If you think preventing a fragmented pagefile will help performance, you are right...the sensible way to aaccomplish this tweak is to enlarge the page file to a value that will be so large, it'll never expand...and then leave expansion enabled, so if your needs do grow, the page file can grow with you.

    more specifically, I've set my pf to two times ram, expansion enabled...if my page file ever becomes too small for my use, and expands, I'll reset the minimum to an even higher value, and so, I'll be avoiding the expanded state of my page file
     
  10. canadian_divx

    canadian_divx Canadian_divx

    thanks for the real information i will work with that now
     
  11. allan

    allan Guest

    [yes...the information allan posted is absolutely incorrect.]


    I'm pretty sure what dealer meant to say is that he believes my post is incorrect.

    Candian - FYI, without any hyperbole, I stand by my post.
     
  12. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    yes, my opologies allan, on the other hand, you never mention in any of your page file posts that your page file advice is an opinion..., even though you've read this information from other sources, including jeh, and ed bott..., you simply say that your settings are the correct settings...ignoring the FACT that your ideas are just your oppinion...therefore, it's neccessary to put my posts on the page file in the proper prospective

    let's both agree here,
     
  13. 2z

    2z OSNN Gamer

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    Hi Guys ;) would love to post a long & detailed reply but I've got a stinker of a headache. Both of you have left facts out !!!!
    The question is; is canadian_divx using FAT on his boot drive ???
    This WILL cause excessive fragmentation
    Download page file Defragger
     
  14. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    thanx for keeping me on my toes TwoZigzagColt45

    and thanx for posting the page file defragger
     
  15. 2z

    2z OSNN Gamer

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    This is for allan:
    if you create a page file smaller than the RAM you will need to change the startup & recovery settings to avoid errors.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. 2z

    2z OSNN Gamer

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    <<<<<< NOT something I would recommend though I'm with dealer on this one BIG is beautiful
    :D
     
  17. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    well done, "two"...bottom line being your performance could not possibly suffer with a too big page file, and it could surely suffer with a too small page file.

    and that's the main reasin to keep expansion enabled
     
  18. 2z

    2z OSNN Gamer

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    On machines with 256 RAM or less, the initial size can be a bit on the small size - increase the minimum to say 500 meg (custom - set). Now let windows manage it. Your new page file will have a more realistic initial size & still be dynamic.
     
  19. delhan

    delhan Guest

    just a visitor here

    and i am totaly confused
    Finaly what gives best perfomance and stability ? manualy page file to a sufficient size and defrag it often by some tool ? or leave it all to windows to automaticaly handle it ?

    wheres the expansion enable option in windows XP ?
     
  20. 2z

    2z OSNN Gamer

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