Overclocking my amd64 3200+

Discussion in 'Benchmarks & Performance' started by Murlo26, Jul 1, 2005.

  1. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    Last night i was working on overclocking my 3200+, i was working on HTT. The highest i could get my bus to was about 2.48ghz stable, actually im checking that with prime95 right now to see if its stable. But i am asking because i raised my vcore up to 1.53V and that should make it more stable for higher speeds, yet it seemed i couldnt get over 2.5 stable. My cpu at load is only at 40C right now, so could i increase my voltage more to make it stable and keep it going up?

    If you think so, then i run into my problem, on my mobo, the K8N Neo4 Plat, i can only find a percentage way to raise my vcore, and right now, i have it maxed out for vcore, and it wont go any higher, its like 8.8 percent, so is there another way in my bios to raise the vcore? Or is there newer bios updates i could do?

    Thats another thing, i have msi livewire and it says i have updates, but i dont know how to install them, is there a special way, or do i just click them or what? Any help would be nice.
     
  2. mlakrid

    mlakrid OSNN BASSMASTER Political User Folding Team

    Murlo, I would be glad to help you... but first list your system piece by piece..

    Memory type/brand/timings/volts currently
    Mobo Brand/model/bios rev/volts currently
    PROC obviously AMD 3200 .. hehe

    About your Bios who is manufacturer? and YES you can raise the voltage.. and in your BIOS is where you should do it... not from the OS, using an OC program they suck...

    Also tell me how you reached your speed that you think is stable? What progs did you use to check to see if it is stable?
    The concept of a stable OC is simple... raise the FSB freq and/or clock until its not stable, raise voltage (for one or the other after you determine which has become unstable) ... and repeat.. BUT... just because its running faster doesnt mean its running better.. heres what I mean

    Lets look at a stable system of Oh say 200Mhz FSB x 10 Clock = 2Ghz...

    the idea of the OC is to assist your ENTIRE system to become stable SO... the best way to see total system performance is to raise your FSB to a much higer level thus increasing the efficiency of your total system...

    So lets look again... if you raised your FSB to say 250 x 10 = 2.5 Ghz...
    BUT it might not be stable so you drop the clock to say 8
    FSB 250 x 8 clock = 2Ghz... so NOW you have the same speed as before... BUT... you have a much faster bus, and depending on your memeory have tighter timings too.... so you have increased overall system performance by increasing hte way the entire system works together, THEN when you have all of this together... raise the voltage on you CPU and raise the multiplier again..... repeating each step of raising the clock or FSB, and running performance checks for each... making SURE that each time you do so, you run punishing checks on both the memory and CPU... AFTER you both of them running at a stable max, then start to OC your video...

    I hope this helps... Keep posting here... Also if you havent already done so, DL Prime95, Sandra, and another burn prog... there are tons to choose fromm
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2005
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  3. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    Ok first is first, right now i am running my vcore at around 1.5 V and my system is still not reaching the speeds i would like to get out of it. My temps are still usually below 40 so that is good, but my clock speed just doesnt want to go above 2.5ghz, i am testing it at 2.49 right now, and it is ok, but once i hit 2.5ghz it craps out on prime95 and gives me an error, let me know if you want the error.

    Now for what you asked....

    For memory i am running http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145523 , and the timings are what it comes with i believe, unless my board changes it, you will have to let me know how to check, but i am pretty sure it is stock. And the current mem voltage is 2.6 and this is rated at 2.75 i believe.

    My mobo is a MSI K8N Neo4 platinum with the pheonix bios rev 5.1.39, and not sure the voltage of this, whatever it comes with, havent messed with it.

    I am following a guide to overclocking the amd64 and i first checked the limit of my HTT by lowering my memory down and my multiplier and just raising the HTT, this tests the limit of my board i believe, and that topped out at 330, which i thought was pretty good. Next i was told to test the limit of my cpu, i raised the cpu multiplier back to 10 and left memory, again so memory doesnt limit it. I got it up to around 2.35ghz on stock voltage, then raised the voltage a bit and it went to around 2.44ghz and then i raised the voltage to about 1.5V and now it has run stable for like 10 hours at 2.48ghz and i am currently testing at 2.49ghz and so far, so good for like 30min. But it seems no matter the voltage my cpu doesnt want to go above 2.5ghz, and then it gives me the hardware error, i know every piece of hardware is different and this could be my limit but i hope i am doing something wrong. I am raising the fsb with clockgen, just for testing purposes and testing with prime95.

    Wow that is a lot, let me know if i forgot anything, and i havent done my memory yet, but that is the next step i was gonna do, but i first wanted to see what my cpu tops out at. Let me know.THanks for help in advance.

    Ps. When i finish oc'ing my cpu it would be nice if you could help me with oc'ing my video, that is my weakest part i would say.THanks again.
     
  4. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    Prime95 has been running stable for like 2 hours now, no errors, so i think my setup of 2.49ghz at 1.5V vcore should be stable, so unless you can think of any reason that i should be able to go higher and have some things i can try, i will continue on with this, but i will wait for your reply, because i would like to get it higher.
     
  5. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    There are multiple factors that limit overclcoking:
    -CPU Temperature
    -CPU Internal timing
    -Memory Timing

    1) Your CPU temp is ok if you're positive that is a correct reading.
    2) CPU timing is a function of the specific chip you got and your motherboard chipset. You may have max'd out on the CPU/Chipset. They do vary or AMD would be selling all the chips at higher ratings to fight Intel.
    3) Memory is very sensitive on the AMD 64 systems, especially with the Nvidia chipsets. Try reducing (actually increase the number) the memory timings and see if that helps. Or try incresing the memory voltage slightly.
     
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  6. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    I just ran prime95 and it threw an error 15 hours and 17 min later, it is the same error it throws when i went over 2.5ghz, if you think it will help i will post the error, and do you think that my 2.49ghz is stable if it ran for that long on prime95? Let me know, thanks.
     
  7. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    man people told me to post here, but no one ever answers, it takes days to get a reply, i could use some help people. Not being mean just making an observation, as for all i know everyone could be really busy.
     
  8. Aprox

    Aprox Moderator Political User

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    It is (was) a holiday weekend man, people will be back. As far as for you OC... its not like you will see a difference between 2.45 and 2.5 ghz. Just find where it stops giving errors.
     
  9. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    You are running your $190 2 gig chip stable at the speed of a $370 2.4 gig chip...

    What exactly is the problem?
     
  10. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    Nothing is my problem, it is just that i have talked to many people have managed to get their venice up to higher speeds, even some 3000+ up to like 2.8ghz, so it just seemed that i didnt get enough out of mine. I was just wondering if there were more tricks to get mine higher, because i expected more after reading the buzz on my chip, but you do put it into good prespective. In reality it is a 25% increase in performance, cant argue with that.
     
  11. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    Sure you could cool it with liquid nitrogen.

    Don't believe every speed claim somebody makes on the web. A lot of people will claim then got their system stable at a high number if it just boots. You are stress testing your system for stable operation. There is a big difference.

    I consider anything increase over 10% a succesful effort. You made 20% stable.

    PS The limit could be in your chipset. Does that have active cooling?
     
  12. gonaads

    gonaads Beware the G-Man Political User Folding Team

    First off your "Venice" 3200+ can get it's core voltage pushed to about 1.55v. But you will generate more heat and shorten the life span of yer CPU. Now you will have to adjust the HTT up from 200 MHz to as far as it will go without having windows not boot up or not posting at all. I have noticed that you will not get past 245 to 250 MHz on air (250 is very edgy). Now some people will get lucky and go higher, but not by much more without some seriously exotic liquid cooling. Remember that it also has to do with the CPU you get. Some might get a "better" core than someone else even if they are both rated at 3200+ or 3500+ and that would help alot in the "overclocking". Now your Memory will be the bottle neck in this whole "overclocking" senario. You will have to set all your timings manually for it all to work together. Plus you will have to set the Muliplier (1-1, 2-1, 3-4, 5-4... etc) so that your Memory is working as close to 200Mhz (DDR400 MHz, half of that 200 MHz) as possible without going so far over 200 that the Mem craps out. Now the XMS memory that you are using has a timing of 2-2-2-5. It's Cas Latency is 2. You should set that to 2.5. It will make it more stable. Plus it should go a bit over the 200 MHz mark. Also it is rated at 2.75 volts, you have it at 2.6. Push it up to 2.7 volts. Get the most out of your memory or no matter how you tweak everything else the system will take a big poop.

    Now my system has an Asus A8V Deluxe MoBo with an AMD 64 3500+ clawhammer core CPU. I am pushing it at 2.72 GHz with an Arctic Cooling Freezer 64. I had it at 2.74 GHz but it was having a hickup every once in a great while, so I had to back it off a touch. I'm pushin 1.65 volts through a 1.55 volt core and my HTT is at 247 MHz. I can run the Super Pi 1 Million calculation in 34.86 sec. which isn't half bad. My Mem timings are 2.5-3-3-8 (Corsair ValueSelect) but I am pushing the multiplier to as close to the 200 Mhz mark as I can (at 194.1 MHz). So my Memory is as efficient as possible without making it or my system unstable.

    Look around the net and find as much info as you can on your Memory MoBo and CPU. See what you can tweak to get what you want, but don't get upset if you can only push it to 2.48 GHz. That's a good jump in clock speed and you have stability also (which is more important than raw speed). Now there is memory out there that is either manufactured by Corsair Micro or Crucial that is rated to 250 or 270 MHz (I don't remember which of those two speeds is the correct one) so you could in essence push your HTT to 250 or 270 and have your Memory mutiplier at 1-1 so the Mem would be running at the same bus speed as your CPU. Now that's fast.

    Read through this thread (http://forum.osnn.net/showthread.php?t=2510) and see what we have posted as to our AMD 64 CPUs and the overclocking we have done... or not done.

    Remember, all these things have to work together. You can't just adjust one setting and get great results. It doesn't work that way, you have to go through the "trial and error" of setting things then going back and undoing those settings and adjusting them differently until you get as close to optimum as possible. Just remember, stability is the most important thing. Good luck.

    [edit]
    Also, get on Google and search for CPU-Z, download it and run it. Get some screen shots of the "CPU" tab, the "Memory" tab and the "SPD" tab. This way we can see the readings you are generating and we can give more educated suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2005
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  13. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    I started testing my system for stablitity like 13 hours ago and it is still good, so hopefully it will be stable a little further. I just wanted to reiterate the fact that i am just testing purely clock speed right now, i havent even got into the memory timings, so i will be posting here for your guys' help, you have given me good info and i thank you for that. But i will probably need a little more.

    I do have cpu-z already, so when i get some memory adjusted and so on, and try and put my system stable for everything, i will let you know, and try to put up some screen shots. And right now, i am testing it at 2.48ghz @1.5-1.53 volts, it varies a bit. Once that i get just my clock speed stable, i will then start to find my memory's limits and start to adjust my overall system. THanks for all your help again, and when i look at the big picture i should be happy with damn near 25% increase in speed.

    What do you mean by active cooling on the chipset, you mean the mobo? If so i have no cooling on that. But my mobo testing pretty high, its limit was at HTT 330 which i thought was pretty good. You will have to elaborate a bit on this because i am still pretty new to all this stuff, just got and built my first comp like 3 months ago and have been learning a lot, and reading a lot. Thanks for your help too.
     
  14. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    Also is it just normal when overclocking to go from 2T to 1T? Is there any difference? Or just some wierd thing to make it stable?
     
  15. lad_in_brum

    lad_in_brum OSNN Addict

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    Its actually cooling for the cpu not the whole mobo, if you search google there is loads of stuff on water cooling etc
     
  16. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    Oh if its just cooling for the cpu then yes i do have that. It is only air cooling but i do have cooling. My temps are great, 40C is the highest it goes and that is at 2.49ghz, so it will probably be around 38C under load when said and done, maybe higher when i am gaming. I didnt understand what he meant by chipset, i thought that he meant the mobo for some reason, not the cpu.

    Here is what i have for cooling the cpu.....
    http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118113

    It seems to be doing a good job, my buddy who builds computers only uses these, he has the bigger one now, but i really like it, works great. And i have four case fans on a fan controller and the fan on the psu.

    If LeeJand meant something else by chipset cooling, let me know.

    And what about the timing thing or whatever it is, the changing 2T to 1T, is that necessary and does it hurt performance, or is it just something that has to be done for overclocking? Thanks again.
     
  17. mlakrid

    mlakrid OSNN BASSMASTER Political User Folding Team

    I would agree with previous posts for your first stable OC 2.49 is great! Congratulations. Now as for your heat problem, I would monitor it over say a 5 hour period simultaneously running prime95 and any other burn-in software. The choice is up to you. If you stay below 40-45C you should be fine. However, I would like to point out heat is your enemy. Air cooling while cheap, can limit your OC'ing potential. Water cooling is very easy, and inexpensive when you look at its over all ability to achieve higer OC's. The choice is still yours however. I would say your stable is MUCH better at 2.49 than it ever was at stock. As for what LeeJend said about your chipset that could be a problem, but I doubt it. If that were my Rig... I would put the FSB at slightly higher than stock speed... in your case since it is DDR 400Mhz say 225 or 235 Mhz, since you said you reached 330. Then try and raise your clock again and see if it stablizes... You got great memory that shouldnt be your issue here. I have and always will swear by Corsair, they are more expensive but man does their memory perform.
    As for not being able to raise your CPU voltage I dont know what to tell you.. I havent used MSI mobos very much I stick to Asus for their awesome quality parts. When you said you were raising your voltage I got confused, you make it sound like you were raising the voltage to your cpu via software not the BIOS... did I hear that right? If you are using software to adjust your voltages, I would suggest against it. Use your BIOS settings and do it manually. Like Apox said we were busy over the holiday...

    Hope this helps a little more....

    Also directly from MSIs website some tips to remember:
    Main Memory •Supports dual channel DDR 266/333/400, using four 184-pin DDR DIMMs.
    •Supports the memory size up to 4GB •Supports 2.5v DDR SDRAM DIMM Due to the High Performance Memory design, motherboards or system configurations may or may not operate smoothly at the JEDEC (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council) standard settings (BIOS Default on the motherboard) such as DDR voltage, memory speeds and memory timing. Please confirm and adjust your memory setting in the BIOS accordingly for better system stability.
    Example: Kingston HyperX DDR500 PC4000 operates at 2.65V, 3-4-4-8, CL=3.
    For more information about specification of high performance memory modules, please check with your Memory Manufactures for more details.
    and....

    DIMM Module Combination Install at least one DIMM module on the slots. Each DIMM slot supports up to a maximum size of 1GB. Users can install either single- or double-sided modules to meet their own needs. Please note that each DIMM can work respectively for singlechannel DDR, but there are some rules while using dual-channel DDR (Please refer to the suggested DDR population table below). Users may install memory modules of different type and density on different-channel DDR DIMMs. However, the same type and density memory modules are necessary while using dual-channel DDR, or instability may happen. Please refer to the following table for detailed dual-channel DDR. Other combination not listed below will function as single-channel DDR.
    Green DIMM1 (Ch A)
    Purple DIMM2 (Ch B)
    Green DIMM3 (Ch A)
    Purple DIMM4 (Ch B)
    System Density
    128MB ~ 1GB
    128MB ~ 1GB
    -
    -
    256MB ~ 2GB
    -
    -
    128MB ~ 1GB
    128MB ~ 1GB
    256MB ~ 2GB
    128MB ~ 1GB
    128MB ~ 1GB
    128MB ~ 1GB
    128MB ~ 1GB
    512MB ~ 4GB

    MSI Reminds You... Dual-channel DDR works ONLY in the 3 combinations listed in the table shown above.Please select the identical memory modules to install on the dual channel, and DO NOT install three memory modules on three DIMMs, or it may cause some failures.Always insert the memory modules into the GREEN slots first, and it is strongly recommended not to insert the memory modules into the PURPLE slots while the GREEN slots are left empty. This mainboard DO NOT support the memory module installed with more than 18 pieces of IC (integrated circuit). The Maximum memory speed decreases when the following two memory combination is selected:
    - Each channel is installed with two double-sided memory module
    - Both DIMM1 and DIMM3 are installed with double-sided memory module
    Due to the South Bridge resource deployment, the system density will only be detected up to 3+ GB (not full 4GB) when each DIMM is installed with an 1GB memory module
    I know this is a TON to read through just remember you asked for help... now you are getting it... AND yes LeeJend was referring to cooling your chipset... while it is worth considering I would check to see if there are other progs you can use to check your internal temps and if they are roughly the same the cooling you are now using should be fine.
     
  18. Murlo26

    Murlo26 OSNN Addict

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    I would quote all that, but its too much, so it will have to be implied. My 2.49ghz was only stable for 15 hours, so i backed it off a little to 2.48ghz and am in the middle of testing. If that goes well i am going to overclock everything tonight and try to get a stable system. When i am done tonight i will post cpu-z screens and see what you guys think.

    As far as my raising voltage goes, i raised it from the bios, it only goes by percent in there though for some reason, and only goes up to 8.8% which is bad for me. But for some reason when i bring up my core center, the software from MSI, my voltage shows at 1.5V which is what i want, then goes back to stock and i have to change it with the core center back up to 8.8% over stock. Is that a problem, i think that corecenter and the bios work together kind of. But i am not sure, what do you guys think?

    And i found out the whole 1T/2T thing, and i should have it at 1T. Thanks for help so far.

    Ps. When i installed my memory i followed that table, it was in my manual, so i believe that mine is ok. Is that all you were trying to get at from that long part on memory, because i read the whole thing and thats what i got out of it. Or were you trying to say that raising my voltage on my memory might not work, im not sure, elaboration would help, thanks.
     
  19. gonaads

    gonaads Beware the G-Man Political User Folding Team

  20. mlakrid

    mlakrid OSNN BASSMASTER Political User Folding Team

    No I was just making sure you had your memory in the slots as mentioned in the table. If you raised your voltages on the memory thats fine. You might want to try and lower the voltages slowly until you begin having problems, then bump it up. the smallest amount it will allow. Like I mentioned on my first post... the MAIN point of an OC is to make sure the ENTIRE system benefits from it. So the higher the FSB the better if its stable... You sound like you are happy with your OC I would be... I would do a search on your mobo and overclocking.. I found a TON of listings on Google, they might be of more help. Keep us posted!

    Cheers!