New computer build - PSU question

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Vanquished, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Hey Everyone,
    I've got a PSU question this time round.
    I just built myself a new computer with an:
    AMD Phenom II x4 955 Black Edition
    1 Sata 2 HDD
    1 DVD/RW drive
    MSI 890GXM-G65 Motherboard
    2 X 2GB of 1333mhz ddr3 ram
    4 120 mm fans
    1 140 mm fan
    Soon to be: 1 ATI Radeon 5770 GPU

    I got the case and psu in a combo pack since it was cheaper and I originally had intended to use a much worse graphics card. The PSU included with the case is an Antec BP430 (I know its not the best card) which is supposedly 430 Watts. To run this set up I was wondering if I will need to get a new PSU. The options for such are:
    Use the current PSU
    Get this PSU (Newegg.com - Pixxo PW-600EQE 600W Power Supply W/ 110V US Type Power Cord)
    Use my old Logisys 550w PSU (Newegg.com - LOGISYS Computer PS550ABK 550Watts ATX12V Power Supply With SATA and 20/24 Pin connectors.)

    If you guys could help me out on this one it would be great. I know none of these solutions would be optimal but that Pixxo 600W psu I can get for 20 bucks today, so I would just like to know if I should act on it. I'm not worried about stability too much, in terms of name brandage. I had been using that Logisys PSU for 4 years on my other desktop (I have a 3 month old one for the new computer if chosen) and never had a problem (ran 2 SATA HDDs, 2Gbs of ram, 2 Disc Drives, as much as 15 fans, an AMD Athlon x2 4600 and an Nvidia 7900gt ko graphics card.

    Any help you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    I suppose if nobody thinks that any of the aforementioned setups will work then I am open to suggestions, preferably best bang for buck suggestions. Also as it is the CPU Heatsink isn't fastened to the board all the way, the hooks are on but I haven't been able to close the clamp (Feel like Im going to break something) Any suggestions on that, I don't think there is too much thermal paste anymore (there was so i removed some of it) but I guess I can check if its necessary for me to tighten the clamp or just leave it open. Suggestions? Thanks!
     
  3. epk

    epk Moderator Political User Folding Team

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    PSU calculator recommends a 450 one, so that Antec one will be too tight. Your 550w should be enough, even if it's a cheap one.
    If you wanna get a new one, it doesn't have to be extremely powerful unless you plan to use it for your next computer, or add another graphics card. Better go for a good brand instead ^^
     
  4. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    well do you know if I would rather use the logisys at 550w that i currently have or would that pixxo 600w one on sale for 20 bucks at newegg be a better shot?
    Thanks for the input!
    -Jack
     
  5. epk

    epk Moderator Political User Folding Team

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    Mm.. the Pixxo's only got 3 reviews on newegg. Seems to be good, but also cheapish. I would just stay with the 550w one, and if it dies, get a better one then.
     
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  6. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Thats always an option, I took a chance though in the last 10 minutes. I bought that pixxo. After looking through the pictures I was able to find the amperage and saw that both rails had 25 Amps, the Logisys got me worried since it only has 1 rail, but of course I still do have it should this Pixxo not work out. Got the Pixxo for 20 dollars from where it used to be 40 (don't laugh, I know its nothing fancy). Thanks for all your help epk, gave me some reassurance that if needed I can fall back on the logisys.
    Thanks again man!
     
  7. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    Rule 1 - any power supply you can get for $20 is not worth 10 cents.

    Rule 2 - for the last 5 years "Watts" is not watt's important (yuk, yuk). The amperage rating on your various outputs combined with the maximum wattage rating for various combinations of outputs is what is critical.

    On new hardware the 12V rails are critical. New CPU/MBs down convert the 12V to the CPU voltage on the MB. Same deal with the Video card.

    You need to compute the 12V demand vs the 12V rail capability of the power supply. Then look at the PS label for the combined wattage ratings. It will say something like total 12V Rail1 plus 5V power should not exceed 350W. If the total 12V is ok the combined wattage may be a bust.

    Finding details on how much of each power type will be hard work.

    Most of your rig is low power stuff, except for the ATI video card which is a power pig. A 430W supply probably is not good enough for the video card regardless of total power needed. Check the 12V Rail ratings. The card will need around 20A of 12V.

    Rule 3 - those online power calculators are usually worthless. I found one that actually looks at amperage as well as watts. I have no idea where it was though. I'll dig around for it.

    I'll look at the spec's on the ANTEC PSU.

    Oh yeah. Figure $60-100 for a decent PSU to run that video card.

    Edit - ROFLMFAO
    The LOGISYS has 1 12V rail at 25A. Useless. It was designed for comptuers they built5-10 years ago. All the amps are on the 3.3V and 5V.

    The PICCO is out of stock BTW and has no technical detail listed.

    Your Antec is light on 12V amps. It would be risky to use witgh an expensive GPU.

    I only buy Antec but last I heard Thermaltake had a good rep.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153114

    This Antec will go your GPU jsutice. Plug the GPU into 12V3 rail.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016

    You might get by with this at $35. Use the 12V1 rail for the GPU.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153113

    I wish I could help more but I've been out of the HW scene or about 4 years since I gave up gaming.

    And remember you can probably get $20 or more selling your Antec PSU to offset the cost of the bigger one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
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  8. Aprox

    Aprox Moderator Political User

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    +1 to Leejends post.
     
  9. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon The One and Only

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    Yea.... ask just about any computer guru/techie... and they'll (as well as myself) tell you that the ONE computer part that should NEVER be skimped on is the PSU. IIRC, the one i'm using right now cost me about $150-200. Just think of it this way. You skimp on a GPU or CPU... you might get a lower framerate. Skimp on the memory... might not be able to get as many gigabytes. skimp on the motherboard... you'll lack some features. Skimp on the power supply, you could wind up with dead bits of hardware due to an overloaded supply.
     
  10. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    To each his own I guess,
    That wasn't really what I was looking for, I just wanted to know if the power was there but since i got this 600 watt PSU I think I should be fine since I was right about there with the 430Watt PSU. I spent 4 years on a no name power supply, and then another 3 months on the same brand working just fine. I have a little more faith in the cheap ones. It was 40 with 20 dollars off, so its already 20 dollars better than the logisys that I was using, which worked perfectly for 4 years...

    Thanks for the input though.
     
  11. Aprox

    Aprox Moderator Political User

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    You have been lucky then, that is all. This is good advice, and I think it would be wise to think twice before disregarding it. The day it all catches up with you, you might not have a working computer anymore.

    Good luck.
     
  12. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    I know its wise advice, but its not really advice I was looking for, I was kinda looking for advice on what the best cheap PSU was (Based on specs) since I am willing to take a chance on a no-name. My computer isn't a super computer its just a regular rig with a good graphics card. I appreciate all your advice, and If this PIxxo doesn't work out, I'll probably have a look at the Thermaltake 600w that LeeJend posted since I don't care if its modular. I'll let you guys know how it turns out, and thank you all very much for your help and advice
     
  13. dreamliner77

    dreamliner77 The Analog Kid

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    I will always, always, always recommend Seasonic psu's. They also provide OEM units for Antec and Corsair. It is also good to look for active PFC and 80+ certification. I have noticed a big dip in electrical usage since switching all 4 of my always on boxes to active PFC and 80+ psu's. Seasonic psu's are built like a tank and very, very quiet.
     
  14. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon The One and Only

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    Vanquished: that's kinda what we're trying to tell you. Yes.... you may have had luck so far.... but relying on no-name PSU's with very little information regarding their specifications isn't a very wise decision. You could very well have a system that's working completely fine.... running fine for days.... weeks..... MONTHS, without a problem. But if the PSU isn't up to spec... you won't know it until everything heads completely south.... and i'm fairly certain those no-name PSU's probably don't have the types of failsafes to prevent such a failure from migrating to other bits of hardware. I'm not saying this based on theory.... i've experienced it. I had an old Sony Vaio desktop kill a GeForce 4 Ti4200 because the power supply wasn't powerful enough. Supply still worked fine.... but it couldn't handle the extra load put on it... and the video card was the only thing that died. And i'm not talking a slow noticable death over time.... i'm talking dead overNIGHT.

    Another scenario? When i first got my 8800GTX a long while back.... i was running an Ultra X2-Connect 550w power supply. prior to the 8800GTX i was running SLI'd 7900GT's. They worked absolutely flawless for quite some time. I had considered a new, slightly more powerful power supply when i got the 8800GTX.... but didn't see it being all that much of a problem since it ran the SLI'd 7900GT's just fine. Yep.... the 8800GTX ran perfectly fine.... then... i'd say maybe 1-3 months later (don't remember the exact span... all i know it wasn't anywhere remotely close to what could be considered "long").... right in the middle of a game.... i hear a very... VERY loud squeal of an alarm coming from somewhere. literally JUMPED out of my chair, and since i had ZERO clue what had happened, but knew it was something bad.... i flicked the power off at the PSU level. thought to myself "Ok.... what the hell was that?" turned the power to the PSU back on.... opened the side panel.... pressed the power button.... instantly heard that same squeal.... and it sounded like it was coming from the video card. Not knowing remotely why it may have done that.... i used my laptop, and e-mailed eVGA's support, who in a very short amount of time replied that the video card will make such an alarm when it is recieving not enough power, or no power at all. Seeing as i had a volt meter lying around.... unplugged the power supply from everything inside the computer... jumped the pins on the 24-pin plug to power the PSU on so i could test the voltages.... and discovered that the 6-pin PCI Express connections had absolutely no voltage. RMA'd the power supply (and bought a new one, like i had originally planned but decided not to)... and RMA'd the video card too, just in case the PSU failure had caused something to happen to the video card.

    Like Aprox said... if you've been doing fine with no-name's so far... then you've been lucky. Just pray your luck doesn't run out and kill some of the parts you paid for in return for your good luck.
     
  15. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Thats a long post...
    The power supply I bought, before any of this conversation past EPK (the Pixxo) did have specs to it, which is why I bought it. The specs are in a picture on Newegg, it has two 12 V rails at 25 Amps a piece and the other standard voltages and amps you'd see on other PSU's. Again I appreciate the advice, but I'm not scared to take a chance on quality, I was more looking for advice on what amount of power I would need for the set up...
     
  16. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon The One and Only

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    Yes.... it has specs.... but nothing that great in terms of the specs. Yes... they say 25A on the 12v rails (and every rail, to be more precise).... but they don't say what the maximum COMBINED amperage on the 12v rails is.... which is more important than going by each individual rail. On top of that..... it's a power supply from a company that doesn't have ANY OTHER computer components other than peripherals and a single barebone Mini-ITX system.
     
  17. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Yea I know, well it will be here today or tomorrow so I'll let you guys know how it turns out, I'm not too worried because I have no plans on doing any sort of overclocking what so ever, I'm not looking to push the PSU to the brink, I'm just getting it because I'd rather have a PSU with a little more power than my 430W Antec (if the Antec was 480W, we wouldn't be having this conversation) lol
     
  18. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon The One and Only

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    i know... just sayin... it might work fine for a while, but that doesn't even remotely mean you're in the clear.
     
  19. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Got most of the computer components in a combo deal off newegg (hence the 430w psu to begin with) so I'm not sunk too far into this computer from the start. I blow a CPU or GPU or Mobo due to a failed PSU and I'll call it a day. I know my decision isn't smart but I don't really care anymore I guess. built the computer to play CounterStrike source and Halo 1 so I'm not really putting it through to strenuous paces. Besides, I always have the netbook to fall back on! I bet I can play solitaire on it :)
     
  20. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    I was lucky with no name PSU's too. When the last one I bought caught fire inside the PC case it did not burn the house down. ;)