Matrix Reloaded - SPOILERS Included!

[Codasmd]

Dealer said:

I think she is "the one", btw, and if this is a well written piece, he cannot be "the one"

That's actually a pretty good theory. Would be a nice twist, seeing as how we all think/have been told that he is the one.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by dealer
she was pissed.

and don't forget, the matrix made up the prophesy to move forward with it's own disign.

the prophesy is part of the matrix...it doesn't exist...he is part of the matrixes plan...she is not.

hero's don't compromise the people they love.

he didn't though... he asked her to stay out of the matrix... and he foresaw what was to happen to an extent...

the oracle is designed to predict patterns in the matrix... ergo she is 99.9% accurate per what I gather...

I still don't see how she could possibly be the one

are you and I watching the same movie and the same clues ?

btw... I am all for the ending being...

- neo wakes up

woah... that was a kewl dream...

mr anderson continues his daily routine of trudgery...



however... considering the entire animatrix series as well as the setup from the 1st 2 movies.. I can't see how anyone but neo can be the one and the matrix not being something BUT in the future time it is supposedly based in...

 

[Geffy]

Originally posted by dealer
I think she is "the one", btw, and if this is a well written piece, he cannot be "the one"

Thats impossible simply because "Only the One can pass through the door to enter the source" I am pretty sure that the architect would know that Neo was the one simply because he was the only one who could get through that door

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by Geffy
Thats impossible simply because "Only the One can pass through the door to enter the source" =

you missed the point...the prophesy is a non existent fabrication made up by the matrix.

the prophesy does not exist.

and true correct prophesy fail in some regard.

 

[Geffy]

but there are rules as to who can meet the architect, that rule is that the person must be the one

 

[gonaads]

Originally posted by dealer
she was pissed.

and don't forget, the matrix made up the prophesy to move forward with it's own disign.

the prophesy is part of the matrix...it doesn't exist...he is part of the matrixes plan...she is not.

hero's don't compromise the people they love.

Neo did not compromise Trinity at all. Yes she was pissed and so what, they all knew that they needed to get the Keymaker and the only way was to let Neo kiss Persephone. She (Trinity) could have shot her but she didn't. She knows that it is a means to an end. And in the end Trinity will still be with Neo.

I don't see how you can tear apart one scene and say that the hero is compromising anyone when he is looking out for the well being of all. And he shows it by doing just that... that kiss. Insignificant to all of them except Persephone, if only to remember a time when she too had something special.

And Trinity can not be THE ONE because by all rites she should be dead... if it were not for Neo saving her. And she should be dead twice, once in the first movie with the Helo and then in the second (Reloaded) when she is shot by the Agent. If it was not for Neo being THE ONE there is no way she survives. And Neo died in the first movie and came back... by himself, she needed help. Serious help.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by gonaads
Neo did not compromise Trinity at all. Yes she was pissed and so what

I don't see how you can tear apart one scene and say that the hero is compromising anyone when he is looking out for the well being of all.

And Trinity can not be THE ONE because by all rites she should be dead...

neo has been saved also, so being saved does not preclude you from being the one

if neo is in love with trinity, he will not forsake her...and if he does forsake here for the sake of the common good, then he is forced to relinquish her...he has got to pay the price for humanity.

and of course he compromised trinity...she was pissed

she knows what is at stake, and she definately did NOT give her approval.

how is it possible for neo to even give the kiss that this "emotion" program wants from him?

it's not possible if he is in love is it.

if this is a well written piece, neo is not the one

 

[gonaads]

Originally posted by dealer
you missed the point...the prophesy is a non existent fabrication made up by the matrix.

the prophesy does not exist.

and true correct prophesy fail in some regard.

Actually the prophecy is true, because he is different than the other five (5) that came before him. He is different in his ability to manipulate the Matrix and also his decision to save Trinity knowing that this will cause all of mankind to be destroyed makes it to be that the prophecy of THE ONE to be correct because he now have an ability in the so called real word. Which is yet to be shown more of... all to be confurmed in the final movie.

 

[Perris Calderon]

or let me rephrase this

neo could be the one that the matrix fabricated, which is a false "the one"

but neo could not possibly be the actual savior of mankind.

the savior cannot forsake what he believes in...does not answer to the goading of the devil...he defeats the devil in these tests, he doesn't submit

neo answered the goading of the devil, and he submitted to the devil

neo failed

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by gonaads
Actually the prophecy is true, because he is different than the other five (5) that came before him.

no, you make my point for me...this demonstrates that the prophesy is NOT true.

this demonstrates that the prophesy is a fabrication, and definately not true.

and sorry...the hero does not save the women he loves instead of mankind.

neo failed again

 

[Perris Calderon]

and before you go and say well, he did this kissing thing for mankind also.

no.

you fight your battles as they are presented, you do not take the shortcut, and mess around with women in order to achieve a goal

 

[gonaads]

Originally posted by dealer
neo has been saved also, so being saved does not preclude you from being the one

if neo is in love with trinity, he will not forsake her...and if he does forsake here for the sake of the common good, then he is forced to relinquish her...he has got to pay the price for humanity.

and of course he compromised trinity...she was pissed

she knows what is at stake, and she definately did NOT give her approval.

how is it possible for neo to even give the kiss that this "emotion" program wants from him?

it's not possible if he is in love is it.

if this is a well written piece, neo is not the one

Wrong, For the simple reason that Trinity knows that this kiss is the way to get what they need. And she did not stop him from doing so. If she is in love with him soooo much she has to understand the reason for the kiss and she does and Neo understands the reason that Trinity is upset but also understands his role and that is to defend everyone. They understand each other. When one is completely in love and comfortable with that love a request like the one Persephone made is understood even if it makes them uncomfortable. Remember Persephone is a Program, not human so there is no atatchment . And they both know this. But she (Trinity) is still NOT THE ONE.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by dealer
or let me rephrase this

neo could be the one that the matrix fabricated, which is a false "the one"

but neo could not possibly be the actual savior of mankind.

the savior cannot forsake what he believes in...does not answer to the goading of the devil...he defeats the devil in these tests, he doesn't submit

neo answered the goading of the devil, and he submitted to the devil

neo failed

you are basing your argument on christian philosophy ?

perhaps you should consider that the characters and settings actually have a LOT to do with greek mythology hence PERHAPS your argument is a little flawed ? especially wiht the view that practically ALL greek heroes/immortals were flawed characters...

I reiterate that I can't see how neo failed... he had a choice to make..

note : zion is about to get destroyed and neo @ this time does NOT know about what the creator will tell him hence he is going by the guidelines that the oracle has laid out...

ergo neo has to do what he can in the best interests of zion... and in this particular case which appears to be the only one you are bringing up.. neo had a choice.. as I explained before...

he made the choice that he felt would give him the ability to help zion and his fellow peoples... perhaps a better term would be sacrificing his standards and beliefs for one moment in which he felt he could garner the leverage he needed to HELP zion...

IF neo had not kissed persephone (her story in greek mythology makes this that much more interesting ) zion would likely have fallen anyways... and besides... this was the expected path trodden by all previous neo's otherwise he would not have made it to the creator...

it is all about choices and consequences and I still fail to see how this could possibly affect trinity... she was mad @ persephone in the scene... NOT neo... though undoubtedly uncomfortable... as I would be too...

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by gonaads
Wrong, For the simple reason that Trinity knows that this kiss is the way to get what they need. And she did not stop him from doing so.

sorry, she can't stop him, all she can do is try to stop him

which she did try to do, in her expression...as I keep saying, she gave no quarter, she did not allow this, and neo submitted to the devil despite her aksing him not to

neo cannot possibly be the true one, he canonly be the one that the matix invented.

he cannot be the true savior of man

sorry

 

[gonaads]

Originally posted by dealer
and before you go and say well, he did this kissing thing for mankind also.

no.

you fight your battles as they are presented, you do not take the shortcut, and mess around with women in order to achieve a goal

BULL SH!T that was not a short cut. And the battle was presented. That was the only way otherwise how would they have found the Keymaker, Hmmmm??? Because there sure as sh!t wasn't any other way to know where he was... now was there?

And if you are going to continue to psychoanalyze that kiss you need therapy.

 

[Perris Calderon]

btw;

did anyone stop to think that neo is just the llatest version of a mutation virus?

morpheous is the original program...(morpheous)

just a hypothesis

then those other guys are aboviously an antivirus...always improving to try to keep up with the virus.

soon, the virus can even corrupt the antivirus

 

[gonaads]

Originally posted by dealer
sorry, she can't stop him, all she can do is try to stop him

which she did try to do, in her expression...as I keep saying, she gave no quarter, she did not allow this, and neo submitted to the devil despite her aksing him not to

neo cannot possibly be the true one, he canonly be the one that the matix invented.

he cannot be the true savior of man

sorry

He is only Human... remember. With all the flaws and weaknesses of being ONLY HUMAN.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by dealer
sorry, she can't stop him, all she can do is try to stop him

which she did try to do, in her expression...as I keep saying, she gave no quarter, she did not allow this, and neo submitted to the devil despite her aksing him not to

neo cannot possibly be the true one, he canonly be the one that the matix invented.

he cannot be the true savior of man

sorry

the one is not a pure soul... I have never heard that said throughot the 2 movies..

consider that in 'real' life mr anderson was a hacker dealin with lowlifes ? as was trnity and morpheus and others... ergo they are not pure souls now are they ? since their minds are commiting violations of the law as we know it..

your pursuing this whole argument with teh devil ? if the matrix is a program... when within it there is no heaven or hell and therefore there is no real devil or god though the creator would be darned close...

also the one was not invented... the one is an anomaly that comes about every so often with in hte matrix as said by the creator... he just is... he comes about due to errors... invention implies that there is something deliberate going on...

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by gonaads
He is only Human... remember. With all the flaws and weaknesses of being ONLY HUMAN.

this submission was weak for any man...hardly demonstrating the strength our savior will need.

if this was a test, and what else could it be, neo failed it.

don't forget

neo gave true emotion, not faked emotion in this kiss

neo failed...submitted to the devil

neo cannot be the true savior, though he can be the fake savior that the matrix made up

 

[Sazar]

/me is starting to think dealer should stick to tom and jerry