Matrix Reloaded - SPOILERS Included!

Discussion in 'Entertainment & Sports' started by Teddy, May 25, 2003.

  1. Teddy

    Teddy Boogie Nights...!

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    I think a new thread is in order to fully discuss the excellent movie...its out everywhere now so i think we must be able to discuss properly and not have to worry about spoiling it for others.


    IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM DO NOT READ ON!!

    ;)

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  2. Teddy

    Teddy Boogie Nights...!

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    Before i start babbling on about the movie, is everyone ok with this new thread - i thought it made sense to have it!
     
  3. Codasmd

    Codasmd Old School XPeriencer

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    I agree.

    Here is what I have to say (in short).

    Enjoyed the movie, very much.
    However, I thought the intro was a bit slow.

    The love scene was just ridiculously long and boring. (Way too much much of K Reeves)

    And they needed a little bit more character development between Jada Pinkett Smiths character and that whole thing with Morpheus and the other guy.

    But the action scenes were great, and over all, very enjoyable.

    Just watched the first one, and that would be tough to beat.

    Btw, The fight scene w/ all the "Agent Smiths" and the pipe, that was bada$$.
     
  4. Teddy

    Teddy Boogie Nights...!

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    Saw the film last night...thoroughly enjoyed it! Really really exciting and very entertaining most of the time but had some drawn out conversations about...well, about nothing really!!

    Loved the first scene too with Trinity on the bike and when she jumps out that window and her two guns come within inches of the screen!

    The special effects for the most part were stunning (especially the part with the two lorries!! WOW!) but occasionally rather poor too! The fight scenes were particularly exciting...gave me a slight adrenaline rush!! I also loved the Neo vs 100+ Agent Smiths...went on for ages and just kept getting better! Cool moment when he picks up that metal pole and spins it round!

    Fave bit: near the end, where neo is 'in a bit of a rush' !! Tearing up the streets getting faster and faster was fantastic!! Cars and lorries be dragged up and the buildings being torn a part! He's really got the hang of the matrix now hasnt he!

    Slight confusion at the ending tho...are they suggesting that even when they think they are out of the matrix they are in fact still in it (im referring to Neo's powers against those flying robots)?

    Overall, 8 outta 10.
     
  5. toxicity

    toxicity Guest

    I think its to obvious if the "real world" is just anyother layer of the matrix. In fact, it must have something to do with agent smith also. when Neo was in a coma, so was the other guy that smith went into at the beginning.

    Overall, i liked this one. better then the first. But the rave scene was rediculous
     
  6. gonaads

    gonaads Beware the G-Man Political User Folding Team

    I think the Neo with the Sentinals scene is something to build on for the third and final (?) movie. Makes you think. He is NOT the ONE (well, not the first ONE anyway :p). But he is very much different than the other ONEs as comented by the Evil Program (the French swearin dude), "He has skills" he said... and he was impressed, in a very pissed off way. Plus if real life is NOT a layer of the Matrix then Neo can have a very powerful effect on the Machines and the Matrix outside of it.
     
  7. Geffy

    Geffy Moderator Folding Team

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    have any of you read e-Kr0ms IRC log file, he comes up with some really interesting ideas and theories in that.
     
  8. Khayman

    Khayman I'm sorry Hal... Political User Folding Team

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    The point is Neo is different form the 5 previous "Ones". The Architect and Merovingian both comment on it, Its this difference (it seems mainly his love for Trinity) that will be the decider. Also Neo says it himself "Something is different" when he comes out of the Matrix at the end. The main issue there is does Neo have any power in the real world, it seems he may, but we don't know the hows or why's of it yet.

    I think some people need to remember that this is actually just one film cut in two parts, so some of the things addressed (Niobe's character etc) will be addressed in the second part, I know I saw her on the teaser at the end. Also that program thats guards the Oracle was in it to.

    The film completely kicks ass, I love the intricate and detailed plot, it allows for long and involved conversation like this (and may i've had with friends) as compared to other action films, which are mostly "The ending was cool".
     
  9. Kr0m

    Kr0m Moderator

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    Alright, since there's a proper thread for this now, I'll post a chat I had with a friend I had about the movie. It's fairly long and some of it is just senseless rambling...

    [09:51] <+Tack|> ahhh yeah.
    [09:52] <+Tack|> i need to see it again.
    [09:52] <+Tack|> 1st time was just like......
    [09:52] <@[e]Kr0m> whoa
    [09:52] <+Tack|> yeah
    [09:52] <@[e]Kr0m> =]
    [09:52] <@[e]Kr0m> information overload
    [09:52] <+Tack|> mixed with my mind being completely
    blown.
    [09:52] <@[e]Kr0m> aye
    [09:53] <+Tack|> actually i would've been happier w/
    less kungfu.
    [09:53] <+Tack|> or at least shorter fights.
    [09:54] <@[e]Kr0m> the fact that he stands there and
    fights as he does, shows how taken he gets in the
    situation, normally if he stopped and realized it,
    he could destroy them like he did with smith in
    the 1st one
    [09:55] <+Tack|> yeah
    [09:55] <+Tack|> that's the thing.....
    [09:55] <+Tack|> remember at the end of the 1st
    film......
    [09:55] <@[e]Kr0m> but its good eye candy/effects =]
    [09:55] <+Tack|> when agent smith attacks him
    [09:56] <+Tack|> and he ends up blocking all his
    attacks w/ one arm
    [09:56] <+Tack|> w/ the other behind his back?
    [09:56] <@[e]Kr0m> yar
    [09:56] <+Tack|> and he's moving super fast
    [09:56] <+Tack|> like the agents do
    [09:56] <+Tack|> what happened to that?
    [09:56] <+Tack|> that was my one issue w/ the new
    flick.
    [09:57] <@[e]Kr0m> well, id say he'd having to be
    moving pretty fast in the fight scene with all the
    smiths, but it'd have to be slowed down for us to
    be able to see it
    [09:57] <@[e]Kr0m> =]
    [09:57] <+Tack|> perhaps.
    [09:57] <@[e]Kr0m> ...
    [09:58] <+Tack|> definitly looking forward to the
    final movie.
    [09:58] <@[e]Kr0m> how would the oracle know what he
    dreams, since supposedly when they arent in the
    matrix its real life
    [09:58] <@[e]Kr0m> or is it real life.
    [09:58] <+Tack|> how does neo have powers in the
    real world?
    [09:59] <@[e]Kr0m> exactly
    [09:59] <+Tack|> yeah
    [09:59] <+Tack|> wow i never thought of that
    [09:59] <+Tack|> what you said
    [09:59] <+Tack|> omg
    [09:59] * +Tack| 's mind just blew...again.
    [10:00] <+Tack|> hmm.
    [10:00] <@[e]Kr0m> since he was brought up being fed
    by the matrix or AI's system, is he a part of the
    matrix or AI himself to be able to do what he can
    do?
    [10:00] <@[e]Kr0m> does this mean does each being
    being fed by the matrix have this power but arent
    able to release it
    [10:01] <+Tack|> i need to see it again just for the
    speech in the room w/ all the TVs.
    [10:01] <@[e]Kr0m> the architect
    [10:01] <+Tack|> that was the big mind blowing part,
    for me.
    [10:01] <+Tack|> yes.
    [10:01] <@[e]Kr0m> chat with the oracle is good too
    [10:02] <@[e]Kr0m> chat with that french guy is good
    too
    [10:02] <+Tack|> yeah...but i had suspicions already
    about the oracle.
    [10:02] <+Tack|> the architect i was not expecting.
    [10:02] <@[e]Kr0m> right
    [10:02] <@[e]Kr0m> hmm
    [10:02] <+Tack|> oh and btw
    [10:02] <@[e]Kr0m> ?
    [10:02] <+Tack|> go watch the 1st matrix
    [10:02] <+Tack|> and
    [10:03] <+Tack|> when neo gets captured...i think it
    is
    [10:03] <+Tack|> remember when the camera is looking
    all all the tv screens?
    [10:03] <+Tack|> and then goes thru one?
    [10:03] <@[e]Kr0m> in the 1st?
    [10:03] <+Tack|> those screens should look familiar
    now.
    [10:03] <+Tack|> yeah
    [10:04] <@[e]Kr0m> when the agents are questioning
    him?
    [10:04] <+Tack|> yeah
    [10:04] <+Tack|> right at the beginning
    [10:04] <+Tack|> of that scene*
    [10:04] <@[e]Kr0m> hmm
    [10:04] <@[e]Kr0m> k
    [10:04] <@[e]Kr0m> been meaning to see it again
    [10:04] <@[e]Kr0m> wish i had the dvd tho, only the
    vhs
    [10:04] <@[e]Kr0m> been holding out on the dvd,
    waiting for the set
    [10:04] <+Tack|> =/
    [10:04] <+Tack|> yeah good call.
    [10:05] <+Tack|> i bought the dvd a couple years ago.
    [10:05] <+Tack|> ok.
    [10:05] <+Tack|> later
    [10:05] *** Tack| is now known as Tack|bath
    [10:07] <@[e]Kr0m> =]
    [10:13] <@[e]Kr0m> symbolic eh, that the architec,
    supposedly master program of all, is male, and the
    oracle, helping the humans in a sense. is female,
    the mother.
    [10:16] <@[e]Kr0m> tack
    [10:16] <+Tack|bath> ?
    [10:16] <@[e]Kr0m> ok
    [10:16] <@[e]Kr0m> question
    [10:16] <+Tack|bath> k
    [10:17] <@[e]Kr0m> you have the matrix,
    [10:17] <@[e]Kr0m> you have outside the matrix or
    zion or reallife = 3
    [10:17] <@[e]Kr0m> um
    [10:17] <@[e]Kr0m> could 'real life' as they know it
    or call it
    [10:18] <@[e]Kr0m> be some sort of backup program or
    alternate program running to fight against the
    oracles work of 'freeing' the humans from their
    slavery
    [10:19] <+Tack|bath> hmm....
    [10:19] <@[e]Kr0m> question #2
    [10:19] <@[e]Kr0m> Did the AI REALLY take over the
    world.
    [10:19] <@[e]Kr0m> do they still RUN the world
    [10:19] <@[e]Kr0m> or is it actually humans in power
    [10:20] <+Tack|bath> hmm.....
    [10:20] <@[e]Kr0m> keeping the average 'joe' in a
    matrix for control
    [10:20] <+Tack|bath> interesting theory.
    [10:20] <+Tack|bath> was I was wondering about is
    this....and it's not deep like your thoughts....jus
    t interesting....
    [10:20] <@[e]Kr0m> it was said, something to the
    effect...
    [10:20] <@[e]Kr0m> what does something or someone
    with power want the most... more power
    [10:21] <+Tack|bath> so the machines use humans
    combined with a form of fusion for energy right?
    [10:21] <+Tack|bath> like a battery
    [10:21] <@[e]Kr0m> or do they
    [10:21] <+Tack|bath> well my question is this....
    [10:21] <+Tack|bath> so do all the squidies and
    everything have human "batteries" inside them?
    [10:21] <+Tack|bath> wait no
    [10:21] <@[e]Kr0m> we still dont know if morpheus or
    neo's outside state isnt still some form of another
    level of the matrix
    [10:21] <+Tack|bath> n/m
    [10:22] <+Tack|bath> yeah
    [10:22] <+Tack|bath> just forget everything i just
    said.
    [10:22] <+Tack|bath> got i need more sleep.
    [10:22] <@[e]Kr0m> what we seen in the first movie
    of the human's energy gathering might just be what
    the zionist's have been told, what the top dog,
    lets them believe or made them believe
    [10:22] <+Tack|bath> your thoughts are intersting
    tho.....a path i had not considered.
    [10:23] <+Tack|bath> that the "real" world is not
    real.
    [10:23] <@[e]Kr0m> like my thought before, all this,
    what we have seen in this two movies, are all
    still in a Matrix
    [10:23] <@[e]Kr0m> this=these
    [10:24] <@[e]Kr0m> and that over all, end control,
    is more or less by human/s(who have total power or
    control)
    [10:24] <@[e]Kr0m> that run the Matrix
    [10:25] <@[e]Kr0m> these movies could be about the
    rebels, zionists, slowly realizing this, fighting
    this ultimate control
    [10:25] <+Tack|bath> yeah
    [10:25] <@[e]Kr0m> er well, thats exactly what
    they're about i suppose hehe
    [10:25] <+Tack|bath> well....but if it turned out to
    be humans at the helm of all this
    [10:25] <+Tack|bath> wow....interesting theory.
    [10:26] <@[e]Kr0m> its kinda like the lessons of
    morpheus to neo
    [10:26] <+Tack|bath> (i don't believe i've said
    "interesting" enough)
    [10:26] <@[e]Kr0m> dont believe what you see
    [10:26] <@[e]Kr0m> what IS 'real"
    [10:26] * +Tack|bath gets out the thesaurus and
    looks up "interesting"
    [10:26] <+Tack|bath> yeah....
    [10:27] <+Tack|bath> but then why would the access
    codes to zions mainframe be so important to the
    machines?
    [10:27] <+Tack|bath> if the "real" world was just a
    backup program....
    [10:27] <@[e]Kr0m> could it be that its one step
    closer to knowing the truth?
    [10:28] <+Tack|bath> i think they definitely have
    the ability to turn everything on it's ear w/ the
    final movie.
    [10:28] <+Tack|bath> i dunno if they have the nuts
    to do that though.
    [10:29] <+Tack|bath> esp. considerng that they
    already did, to an extent, in reloaded.
    [10:29] <@[e]Kr0m> zion is like a program or groups
    of programs or human minds(rebels) that maybe the
    oracle is trying to set free
    [10:30] <+Tack|bath> i also wanna see how they
    handle the oracle.
    [10:30] <@[e]Kr0m> the architect has his programs
    set to destroy the oracle's work.. the freedom of
    the avg. joe
    [10:30] <+Tack|bath> seeing as how she did before
    her scenes for the 3rd movie were shot
    [10:30] <+Tack|bath> did = died
    [10:30] <+Tack|bath> supposedly
    [10:30] <@[e]Kr0m> kinda like how a anti-virus
    program works against a virus or whatever
    [10:31] <+Tack|bath> i'm curious what they're going
    to do w/ the agent smith in the real world thing
    [10:32] <@[e]Kr0m> those two main points, of where
    the oracle knows what neo dreams, and the end
    where neo stops the sentinals, is what makes me
    think that theres a strong chance 'zion' is still
    a matrix of some type
    [10:32] <@[e]Kr0m> oh yeah, and smith being in 'real
    world'
    [10:33] <+Tack|bath> see neo said he "sensed" the
    squidies
    [10:33] <@[e]Kr0m> and where neo is told by the
    architect, he's the 6th version
    [10:34] <+Tack|bath> yeah
    [10:34] <@[e]Kr0m> just how many times has the
    matrix been done... what we;ve been told now, is 6
    [10:35] <@[e]Kr0m> so maybe, the humans are slaves
    of some sort, like they explain in the first
    movie, but is it really energy for the AI
    [10:36] <@[e]Kr0m> the matrix owner or god doesnt
    give the avg joe a choice
    [10:36] <@[e]Kr0m> the oracle is making the avg joe
    see choices
    [10:37] <+Tack|bath> it does all sort of tie back in
    to the 1st tho
    [10:37] <@[e]Kr0m> well maybe not the avg joe, but
    the ones that can see clearly, think better than
    the rest... neo
    [10:37] <+Tack|bath> like
    [10:37] <+Tack|bath> remember during the "humans are
    the disease of this planet" speech?
    [10:37] <@[e]Kr0m> yeah, that was good
    [10:37] <+Tack|bath> agent smith to morpheus
    [10:37] <@[e]Kr0m> one of my favorite statements =]
    [10:38] <+Tack|bath> he was saying about how the
    previous matrix or 2 (i forget) was a failure
    [10:38] <+Tack|bath> because the humans kept trying
    to wake up
    [10:38] <@[e]Kr0m> right
    [10:38] <@[e]Kr0m> so maybe...
    [10:38] <@[e]Kr0m> the zion level, is like a backup
    program
    [10:39] <@[e]Kr0m> to the ones that are 'trying' to
    wake up
    [10:40] <+Tack|bath> the only problem i find w/ that
    theory is that it completely pulls the rug out
    from under the 1st 2 movies.....plus the machines
    are putting a lot of effort into trying to squash
    zion.....
    [10:40] <@[e]Kr0m> correct
    [10:40] <@[e]Kr0m> destroy the ones that are closer
    to becoming ultimately free
    [10:41] <@[e]Kr0m> zion=backup program for the ones
    closer to becoming free, knowing the ultimate
    truth. the sentinals are designed to destroy zion,
    and destroy the zionists, ulimately killing the
    humans that are close to knowing the truth and
    becoming free
    [10:42] <+Tack|bath> but if they are, in fact, still
    hardwired in.....
    [10:42] <@[e]Kr0m> if these people become ultimately
    free, then god or the top dog or human that
    controls the matrix will lose total power
    [10:42] <+Tack|bath> couldn't the machines just kill
    them?
    [10:42] <@[e]Kr0m> in a sense, yes, but he needs
    them for something.
    [10:43] <@[e]Kr0m> ooh, nm, i see your point
    [10:43] <+Tack|bath> i dunno
    [10:43] <@[e]Kr0m> hmm
    [10:45] <@[e]Kr0m> 3rd movie should be good.
    [10:45] <+Tack|bath> k then...
    [10:45] <+Tack|bath> yeah i can't wait.
    [10:45] <+Tack|bath> did they release a date yet?
    [10:45] <@[e]Kr0m> Nov
    [10:45] <@[e]Kr0m> potentially 5th
    [10:45] <@[e]Kr0m> hmm
    [10:45] <@[e]Kr0m> still thinking if zion is another
    level of the matrix yet
    [10:46] <@[e]Kr0m> if so, why not kill the humans in
    zion in their pod or real life state
    [10:46] <@[e]Kr0m> or
    [10:46] <@[e]Kr0m> nah
    [10:46] <@[e]Kr0m> nvm
    [10:46] <+Tack|bath> lol
    [10:46] <@[e]Kr0m> brain hurts now
    [10:47] <@[e]Kr0m> or
    [10:47] <@[e]Kr0m> he doesnt want to destroy
    [10:47] <@[e]Kr0m> since these rebels are finding
    holes in his matrix
    [10:47] <@[e]Kr0m> and he needs to know these
    imperfections
    [10:48] <@[e]Kr0m> so as he goes along, rebels find
    a hole in the matrix, god fixes it, fires up an
    upgraded matrix
    [10:48] <@[e]Kr0m> and so on
    [10:49] <@[e]Kr0m> so far, supposedly, this has
    happened 6 times
    [10:49] <@[e]Kr0m> is the creator just trying to
    create a perfect matrix
    [10:49] <@[e]Kr0m> in 'hopes' of total control over
    humans
    [10:50] <@[e]Kr0m> ultimate power.
    [10:51] <@[e]Kr0m> however the third movie works
    out, i still think, for now, that a human is
    behind all this seeking total control.
    [10:51] <@[e]Kr0m> not AI
    [10:52] <@[e]Kr0m> AI is just his tool.
    [10:58] <+Tack|bath> i hate to say it but i fear that they are going to take the least interesting route.
    [10:58] *** Tack|bath is now known as Tack|
    [10:59] <+Tack|> and have it that neo is in some way "special" in the real world as well
    [10:59] <+Tack|> and he leads the humans to triumph over the machines, or at least to co-inhabit the earth peacefully.
    [11:06] <@[e]Kr0m> heh
    [11:06] <@[e]Kr0m> or it could be just to computer programers having fun against each other
    [11:06] <@[e]Kr0m> two*
    [11:07] <@[e]Kr0m> one is hacking the other
    [11:07] <@[e]Kr0m> each other
    [11:07] <@[e]Kr0m> going back and forth
    [11:07] <@[e]Kr0m> in a fight to win
    [11:07] <@[e]Kr0m> hehe
    [11:07] <@[e]Kr0m> its all just a game!
     
  10. Razorwing

    Razorwing Guest

    wasn't that long.. ^^ :lol:
     
  11. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    The entire first movie was slow really :)
    Love scene had an oakie tune so I am gonna let it slide.

    Sure the new characters will be developed more in the second one.
     
  12. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    I guess I'm the only one dissapointed with this movie?

    I was bored at least three times through the movie, and wanted to leave.

    I hated the morpheous speech...this was one of the most uncharasmatic speeches in the history of movie dom.

    in addition;

    could someone explain to me the info for a kiss scene?

    this scene shows just how little charachter the hero has, not how much charachter...made me disslike him.

    I give this movie a 2 out of 5...less then good, less then enjoyable, not far from not being worht the effort
     
  13. Geffy

    Geffy Moderator Folding Team

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    has anyone watched all of the Animatrix, at the very end it explains where that damn kid who looks up to Neo so much comes from
     
  14. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    dealer: what you don't know about persephone you will find out in the third movie.

    She is a program that thrives on emotions or something.
     
  15. Geffy

    Geffy Moderator Folding Team

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    I loved the matrix code texture effects at the beginning of the film, thought those were real good
     
  16. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    I understand this part, but the hero cannont in front of the women he loves, forsake his love for here.

    if he does, he domonstratess very un hero ness
     
  17. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    remmeber the whole thing about choices :)

    neo had a choice... be a frigid prat and not get the keymaker... or be a guy who adapts to the situation and GET the keymaker... :)

    to kiss another woman is not a sign of being unfaithful... trinity didn't exactly blow her top after the event... and persephone DID say she envied trinity :)

    I can't understand why this is a bad thing or a black mark v/s neo...
     
  18. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    well, she didn't give him the go ahead...she looked pretty pissed, and gave no indication that this was fine.

    I maintain, you cannot forsake the women you love if you are the hero...

    I think she is "the one", btw, and if this is a well written piece, he cannot be "the one"
     
  19. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I fail to see how this is possible due mainly to the prophecies fullfilled from the first part...

    admittedly the oracle is a program but she knows things... and she pretty much says neo is the one... also neo is the one who speaks to the creater thinger person @ the end... not trinity...

    trinity is supposed to fall in love with the one... hence did she fall in love with herself ?

    the values you place on what is or is not proper may not be the values that neo/trinity/persephone live with... considering that in the context of the matrix when inserted they are all programs... though neo and trinity happen to be alive... they are all sentient beings per se..

    the kiss itself.. I go with what EP said that she could well feed off of emotions or something like that...

    to kiss another woman in the situation as it was... that is not forsaking the woman you love... you are taking the only route possible... the only pragmatic course of action... I can't see how this makes trinity any less worthy or neo any less of a 'hero'
     
  20. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    she was pissed.

    and don't forget, the matrix made up the prophesy to move forward with it's own disign.

    the prophesy is part of the matrix...it doesn't exist...he is part of the matrixes plan...she is not.

    hero's don't compromise the people they love.