I'm curious ...

I started with a book and notepad. Then I came across DreamWeaver and haven't looked back since. you can add hand written code in with dream weaver I dont see why you need note pad but whatever.
 
I started off using Frontpage, then i managed to get a copy of Macromedia Studio MX so started using the 3 main tools (Dreamweaver, Flash and Fireworks) to develop sites. But now i just use a text editor, because im on a linux box i use gEdit, on my XP box i used Notepad2 and on my old iBook i used to use textedit :)

Writting out the code by hand gives you a much better understanding of what you are exactly doing.
 
i always use dreamweaver, but in code + final view, gives me the code, and the final result on the same screen, some things i change the code, other things i use the dreamweaver menu's.
 
use legal pads and then scan them on the computer :D jk i just wanted to be part of the conversation
 
I originally started off using Dreamweaver 2, then followed up with v3 and then MX on various school machines. After I started getting more into standards compliant code and things working in more compliant browsers I have dumped Dreamweaver, tried GoLive for a short while, it was nice for CSS but that was about it. I now code my sites in a syntax highlighting text editor. I have used HTML-Kit, Scintilla, Maguma PHP Studio, Zend Studio (my current main one, cept having problems with it on OSX). Now in OSX I have tried things like BBEdit and SubEthaEdit, I finally settled on SubEthaEdit and bought a proper license as I do paid work in it. Its one of the best editors I have used, very nice and responsive. It still gets lost with PHP heredoc, but Zend is the only one not to that I know of.

Anyway, after that long history of my coding applications, no I have never used notepad to code, at least not for long periods of time. Never really hated myself that much. The reason why a lot of people say to learn in notepad is that they think its important to learn how the code/markup goes together so that if you use something like Dreamweaver later on you can duck into the code and fix things that Dreamweaver has done. I do believe this is important, but why make the learning process harder on yourself, get a syntax highlighting editor so that you can see and visualise your code better, it helps you catch errors as well.

A final thing to remember is that applications like Dreamweaver in order to show you physical preview of what you are creating in realtime they have to use a rendering engine. Dreamweaver still uses the Microsoft Internet Explorer rendering engine, so everything that MSIE cant do DWMX also cannot do, like transparent 24-bit PNG files, certain types of CSS selectors especially and certain other aspects of the CSS specification.
This does mean that you can design a site that will work in MSIE, but you cant guarantee that it will work in other browsers. I wrote one of the previous versions of my geffychan website in Dreamweaver, in MSIE it looked great, but in other browsers certain things just didnt work properly and it took me ages to properly debug it to the point that both MSIE and other browsers could render it properly. So in that respect a wysiwyg editor can actually increase your work load, and you just know that some of us here can get bitchy if things arent all valid ;)


So to conclude your arguement is valid, you should learn on something like notepad, learn it in the text format and then go to a wysiwyg editor, but thats not to say you shouldnt use some form of HTML Text Editor like the ones mentioned above.
 
Geffy said:
I originally started off using Dreamweaver 2, then followed up with v3 and then MX on various school machines. After I started getting more into standards compliant code and things working in more compliant browsers I have dumped Dreamweaver, tried GoLive for a short while, it was nice for CSS but that was about it. I now code my sites in a syntax highlighting text editor. I have used HTML-Kit, Scintilla, Maguma PHP Studio, Zend Studio (my current main one, cept having problems with it on OSX). Now in OSX I have tried things like BBEdit and SubEthaEdit, I finally settled on SubEthaEdit and bought a proper license as I do paid work in it. Its one of the best editors I have used, very nice and responsive. It still gets lost with PHP heredoc, but Zend is the only one not to that I know of.

Anyway, after that long history of my coding applications, no I have never used notepad to code, at least not for long periods of time. Never really hated myself that much. The reason why a lot of people say to learn in notepad is that they think its important to learn how the code/markup goes together so that if you use something like Dreamweaver later on you can duck into the code and fix things that Dreamweaver has done. I do believe this is important, but why make the learning process harder on yourself, get a syntax highlighting editor so that you can see and visualise your code better, it helps you catch errors as well.

A final thing to remember is that applications like Dreamweaver in order to show you physical preview of what you are creating in realtime they have to use a rendering engine. Dreamweaver still uses the Microsoft Internet Explorer rendering engine, so everything that MSIE cant do DWMX also cannot do, like transparent 24-bit PNG files, certain types of CSS selectors especially and certain other aspects of the CSS specification.
This does mean that you can design a site that will work in MSIE, but you cant guarantee that it will work in other browsers. I wrote one of the previous versions of my geffychan website in Dreamweaver, in MSIE it looked great, but in other browsers certain things just didnt work properly and it took me ages to properly debug it to the point that both MSIE and other browsers could render it properly. So in that respect a wysiwyg editor can actually increase your work load, and you just know that some of us here can get bitchy if things arent all valid ;)


So to conclude your arguement is valid, you should learn on something like notepad, learn it in the text format and then go to a wysiwyg editor, but thats not to say you shouldnt use some form of HTML Text Editor like the ones mentioned above.

This sounds like the most intelligent post of them all so far. Good points! (Rep Points for you!)

Here's what I would like to see... Webpages created by everyone who says they use certain methods. That will be the real life test :)

Here's mine... http://uniteddebtsolutions.com Created mostly using the text coder in Dreamweaver.
 
Un4gIvEn1 said:
This sounds like the most intelligent post of them all so far. Good points! (Rep Points for you!)
cheers

most of mine are done in Zend or SubEthaEdit (SEE)
I actually did stealth-ninja.co.uk with Photoshop, ImageReady, Zend, WebDeveloper Plugin in Firefox
geffy.co.uk is actually done with trial and error through the blog interface and then styled using Firefox and the Webdeveloper Plugin. I have a few more that I am working on right now which are done in Zend and SEE and then the HTML output is then styled using again the Mozilla Firefox Webdeveloper Plugin
 
portal which is still heavily in beta but that was done in gEdit on Ubuntu and the blog also done in gEdit, then imported into the bloger interface ;)
 
both mine do appart from a few pages on my blog which i am working on. Also the forums ar out of my hands, thats up to phpbb to develop them correctly.

My portal validates to xhtml 1.1, css validates and it also validates to WIA
 
The only validation I care about is that you can see it when you go to it. :) I'm not a professional web designer.
 
Wow, you fixed them quick as the first time I tried validation on them they failed.

Nice job. :up:
 
American Zombie said:
Wow, you fixed them quick as the first time I tried validation on them they failed.

Nice job. :up:

ah i gather you must have caught the WIA link error, it incompatible with my xhtml 1 1 so until i can fix that i dropped it :p
 
Un4gIvEn1 said:
The only validation I care about is that you can see it when you go to it. :) I'm not a professional web designer.
Does not take a pro to write code that can pass validation.
 
American Zombie said:
Does not take a pro to write code that can pass validation.

Your right... but it does take someone who has a lot of time... and that I do not have. I am in the process of redoing the site anyways. I am going to go with some sort of content management system so that I can pass the responsibility off to someone else eventually.
 
As long as it's reasonably good code, perfect compliance isn't really a necessity.

For example, I realized that I forgot to add an alt attribute for one of my images (which is one of the reasons why it didn't validate today, although it usually does). Not really a big deal. The site looks the same in every modern browser, and that's what's the goal of writing compliant code anyway. If someone's using Lynx to view my site and can't see the alt attribute for the image, I suggest that they leave the dark ages and start using normal browsers like normal people. :p

Edit: Attribute added, problem solved. Valid XHTML 1.0 ;)
 
My first ever site was made using Frontpage which didn't go live actually. After that, I was told that Notepad/Notepad2 would be the best way to code sites. I've been using it for pretty long time now. :)
 
stealth-ninja.co.uk is all valid XHTML 1.1 and I think at current geffy.co.uk is as well, though only XHTML 1.0 Transitional
 

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Also Hi EP and people. I found this place again while looking through a oooollllllldddd backup. I have filled over 10TB and was looking at my collection of antiques. Any bids on the 500Mhz Win 95 fix?
Any of the SP crew still out there?
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Just did some crude math and I apparently joined almost 18yrs ago, how is that possible???
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