How often should i defrag?

[ghayes]

"I will see if I can write some kind of review"

Make sure you take time to read the Getting Started Guide (you can click on the icon in the PD start screen or can browse to the PerfectDisk folder and find it) so that you understand the difference between online/offline defrag, Smart Placement/Defrag Only, and about how PD is configured to handle the boot/layout files.


"If I may try to explain this more simply (as I believe I mentioned on the first page of this thread) - XP reserves 12% of your drive (regardless of size) for the mft. I believe that's the correct number, wouldn't you agree Mr. Hayes?"

Yes, this is correct. Unless HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem\NtfsMftZoneReservation is present and has been set to a value greater than 1.

- Greg/Raxco Software

 

[allan]

QG - Did you think you could hide from me over here?

Yes, it is I. Guess my disguise didn't work, huh? Or was it the "id" in my sig over the avatar?

Good to see you my friend.

 

[Goldy]

Is it not that the 12.5% (to be exact) is the max limit that the MFT can expand to! I have had 2.3GB free space on a 37.5GB hdd and my PC worked fine, I did not get any errors or even warnings and all the files accounted for the used space.
Now if wot your saying is correct then 4.6GB is used for MFT but the MFT was still reporting smaller than 100MB

Me still confused

 

[allan]

I'm not a technician, but I'll give you my read. XP isn't stupid. It reserves an area for MFT expansion in the event the MFT needs it - the file table must have room to grow - that's not an option. BUT - if your system needs the reserved (but unused) space for soemthing else and it is clear to the OS that the MFT will not need it, then XP will reallocate as required.

Again, I cannot document that, but I believe it to be correct.

 

[allan]

Okay, here you go:

The MFT Zone is not subtracted from available (free) drive space used for user data files, it is only space that is used last. When the MFT needs to increase in size, for example, you created new files and directories, it is taken from the MFT Zone first, thus decreasing MFT fragmentation and optimizing MFT performance.

Copied from here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q174619&LN=EN-US

 

[ghayes]

Exactly - as I posted earlier...

"As files are created, the number of fileids available for use in the $MFT is reduced. When they run out, the $MFT "grows", expanding into the MFT Reserved Zone. The reason that the MFT Reserved Zone even exists is to provide a section of free space adjacent to the $MFT so that when it grows, hopefully it will grow contiguously (the file system won't put files into the MFT Reserved Zone unless you really get low on free space OUTSIDE of the MFT Reserved Zone)."

- Greg/Raxco Software

 

[allan]

Mr. Hayes - yep. But to be honest, I know what I'm doing and I had trouble following your post. Sounds kinda like it's copied from a manual. I just tried to put it in laguange I and others might better understand.

Thanks.

 

[CooL_*_TanG]

Hows these stats suit you :

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 48 %
File fragmentation = 96 %
Free space fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 21,654
Average file size = 5 MB
Total fragmented files = 7,827
Total excess fragments = 858,791
Average fragments per file = 40.65

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 0 bytes
Total fragments = 0

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 2,070
Fragmented folders = 235
Excess folder fragments = 582

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 51 MB
MFT record count = 27,871
Percent MFT in use = 53 %
Total MFT fragments = 101


lol I think I can wait still
Total fragmentation = 48 %
ya i'll wait

 

[allan]

Guilt? Certainly not mine and hopefully not yours -- if I enjoy stopping by here from time to time why shouldn't you?

And yes, this site clearly has more of a "social" interplay than ours - we tend to be more "business-like". I think the two boards make for nice counterpoints, don't you? I tend to be pretty bottom line oriented, so I mostly avoid a lot of the byplay. But hey - as we said in Brooklyn: suseachhizzone.

I just wish I could get the mods and admin here to spend a little more time at our site. They certainly have enough so they have the time -- but they do stop by once in a while

(hint, hint - EP, HD, et al)

 

[Perris Calderon]

Posted by GHayes

When you delete a file, that particular fileid isn't immediately re-used. Only after a very large number of files have been created does the file system go back and start re-using fileids - incrementing a sequence number (part of the fileid). For this reason, the $MFT will do nothing but grow and grow and grow - which is why the MFT Reserved Zone is there - to allow the $MFT to grow contiguously. The $MFT can only grow - it can never shrink (the only way is to backup data, reformat and restore data).
Does this help?

- Greg/Raxco Software

well, I understand what you're saying here, but it diesn't make sense that $mft doesn't reuuse area that's been deleted...is there a functon to this method, or it just a matter of desgn expedience?

 

[ghayes]

Nope - not copied from a manual - my own words (maybe I should write a manual) Maybe it sounds too technical because that's what I am - a technical person...

It's not that the "white space" in the $MFT doesn't get re-used, it's that it doesn't get re-used immediately. I'm not exactly sure why.

- Greg/Raxco Software

 

[allan]

Posted by GHayes
Nope - not copied from a manual - my own words (maybe I should write a manual) Maybe it sounds too technical because that's what I am - a technical person...

Well, technical or not you make great use of the language and rules of grammar -- something I've always respected Just goes to prove that the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Perris Calderon]

so, mr ghayes, about the impending war in iraq...what were your thoughts?

as far as perfect disc;

this is a defrag program that I've been using since this conversation, and I have to say with sincerity, an amazing product.

if anyone here is going to purchase a defrag program, make sure you give perfect disc the 90 day trial...very impressive

I'll be writing my official revue for this product in the days to come.

ghayes, please stick around this great board, your knowledge is full well appreciated.

 

[Goldy]

Could that Technical Person please explain where my MFT zone is ???????

http://members.aol.com/thegoldy1/defrag.psp

Me is still puzzled

 

[Perris Calderon]

goldy..go here and download the trial version of perfect disc.

the program will show you exactly where the mft zone is...it will even localte specific files for you with one of the gui features

 

[Goldy]

When Twozigzagcolt45 shows a Screenshot of Diskeeper after analysis you can see the MFT yet I cannot

 

[Perris Calderon]

do you have nfts or fat

 

[ghayes]

"if anyone here is going to purchase a defrag program, make sure you give perfect disc the 90 day trial...very impressive"

Actually, the evaluation period for PerfectDisk is 30 days - not 90 days.

- Greg/Raxco Software

 

[Perris Calderon]

well Greg, I have picked up the perfect disc...the most impressive defrag program I have seen.

I;m especially dissapointed in the fact that the norton speed disc actually circumvents the xp file placement strategy, and of course am pleased that the perfect discspeeds the file placement strategy along.

now, because I've had so much enjoyment from the knowledge and insight you brought to this board, I've done some extra research concerning the ntfs file system...through the difinitive resource "inside windows 2000"

what I've discovered is even more enlightening, and I thought important enough to share on this thread, though it's not exactly on point;

one of the advanced qualities of the ntfs, is it's redundant recovery nature...the ntfs uses the mtf and meta data to create safe havens for information that would have otherwise been lost in a system crash.

btw, I'm assuming that this might be one of the reasons mtf is not deleted until neccessary.

basically, a users information is either completed, or rolled back in the event of a crash of any sort, and this is one of the reasons your data is most secure with the ntfs.

now, here's an especially interesting feature of ntfs..., these master file tables also allow the nt kernal to correct bad sectors of your harddrive on the fly. in point of fact, the ntfs actually performs the chkdis in it's naative behavior, without having to run the chkdsk utility

this is one of the reasons xp does not go into scan disc ,(chk dsk) after a crash with xp, as the ntfs has already corrected the bad data and sector, on the fly.

basically, according to the microsft publication, chk dsk is a utility that's only neccessary in a severe catastrophy

very interesting information that was not brought to my attention, till you created my interest in the ntfs file system.

Greg...please make sure you stop by often, and lend some knowledge and insight when you can

perris

 

[ghayes]

Perris,

Well, I do my best to keep abreast of things happening in a lot of different online forums. You can catch me also in the microsoft.public.winxxxx newsgroups (I am a MVP for Windows File Systems) as well Compuserve's NT/2000 forum, VirtualDr, Icronic Forums, (too many to list all). Most times, I am just "lurking". However, when I see an opportunity to correct some mis-perceptions or share some knowledge, I'm certainly not shy about posting

- Greg/Raxco Software