GeForce 4 4600ti question.

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by killerk, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. killerk

    killerk Guest

    I have 256 DDR at 2100 speed.

    is this memory causing a bottleneck? can anyone suggest what type of memory to use with this card?



    Other specs,

    1.3 Duron (I know I know, it's getting upgraded too)
     
  2. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    your video card is fine... your cpu is the bottleneck in your system :)

    your cpu operates @ 200mhz fsb... your memory @ 266mhz... so straight off you have a bottlenck... besides that you have a duron... which in itself is a limiting factor...

    your video card is plenty powerful enough to run most of today games with a fair degree of eye candy turned on... a better cpu will help and certainly more/better memory will help to...

    cpu/memory is cheaper to upgrade than the video card in your system considering what you already have...

    my $0.02...
     
  3. killerk

    killerk Guest

    thak you very much for replying, I know the CPU is sad, but it was good when I got it, plus back then I only had a geforce 256mx and 512 PC133 SDRAM in there,

    any suggestions as far as CPU upgrade? I have a gigabit board in there that has 333 FSB

    any suggestions?
     
  4. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    I'm assuming you meant 333 memory and the gigabyte is the 7vrxp or the 7vrx which only support 266 Mhz front side bus but 333 mhz ram. Let me know if it is a latter 333 MB that supports the 333 fsb and ram, the answers will change (see comment at bottom). Options:

    Forget a RAM upgrade and the MB is good too. The Duron is choking the life out of your system!

    1). Not much point in buying a Barton since your MB probably doesn;t suppor the 333mhz fsb (see recommendations). There is some benefit to using a Barton but you will have to fiddle with the MB multiplier and fsb to get the full rating on the 7vrx family MBs. Also, it is a very good overclocker!

    2). I'm not a big fan of the Throughbred class of chips that are available from 1800-2600. The higher speed chips are heat pigs with too little surface area. But they do have a niche.

    3). There is a new 266 mHz fsb chip coming out called Thorton. It is a Barton with the onboard cache reduced to 256meg, FSB slowed to 266 mhz (and purely my speculation - I think the multiplier will be locked so it can't be overclocked to compete with Barton).

    Right now I'm sitting on a proc/MB upgrade waiting to see if AMD gets it's head out of its butt (and have been for 15 months). But, if your dying to upgrade (and with a 1.3 Duron I would be) options are:

    First choice go with the retail xp1800 throroughbred chip $66 at essencompu.com (free shipping and retail comes with a new stock heatsink).

    Second choice if you can live with the duron a month longer see how the pricing and the benchmarks on the Thornton shape up (I expect a retail XP2500 thornton at ~$75 based on AMDs pricing structure).

    Third look around for a used Palomino xp1900, with a heat sink, from someone you can trust. (price should be ~$50).

    Fourth if you are tech savy or have someone who can help. Buy the retail xp2500 Barton and set it up to run xp2500 rating with a fsb 266 for now. Then you have some interesting overclocking options. (<$100 with shipping and stock heatsink included at essencompu.com).

    Any of the above will double your system speed and add 50% or more to your gaming frames per second! Remember the Duron heatsink is useless, it must be replaced with something good to cool the faster chips!!!!!!! Figure $20 bucks for a heatsink if you buy an OEM processor (no heatsink included).

    If you really have a gigabyte board that is truly 333 mhs FSB go for the retail xp2500.
     
  5. Taurus

    Taurus hardware monkey

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    good post, leejend.

    killerk, do you know what board you have? or the chipset, at least? if not, we can show you how to find out.
     
  6. killerk

    killerk Guest

    Gigabit KT 400
     
  7. Taurus

    Taurus hardware monkey

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    ah, the 7VA series... good board.

    as long as you have updated your bios to version F9 or later, you can harness the power of a barton. so i would say your best investment would be a 2500+.

    but this increase in fsb (333mhz) means a memory upgrade would certainly be recommended sometime after. you can use your pc2100, but some pc2700 would help quite a bit. and when you get that, you might as well get 512mb, too.

    sorry, not trying to get you to spend lots of money. :p just want you to get the most out of your system.
     
  8. killerk

    killerk Guest

    no man no problem, that is exactly what I needed. Thank you very much.

    Figure I'll get the processor first, then make the jump to 512 PC2700.

    LeeJend, I think that is the greatest post ever made, how very informative. Thank you for your input.


    <evil voice> soon I will reap the full benifits of my card </evil voice>

    once again, thanks all !!



    *** Edit what type of CPU fan is recommended for the 2500?
     
  9. killerk

    killerk Guest

    with the barton 2500, it runs at what ... 1.83?Ghz ...


    what would be the max overclock for taht puppy?
     
  10. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    Arrgh! A what's a good fan question. They usually spawn dozens of fervent replies. Do a search for heatsink in "other hardware" section here and you can read them (for hours). The prices will vary from $19-100+. I try to stay out of the "best heatsink debate".

    The Volcano 9 is priced around $20 and includes a heat sensor option (automatic but involves threading a sensor wire through the CPU pins, bad idea) or a fan speed option (manual, but no risk). Set the manual speed adjust to max then slow it down as desired to get the cpu temp and sound level you can live with. Or you can go with the "Retail" CPU and use the included fan. It is guaranteed adequate by AMD but if you get the urge to overclock it won't cut it.

    If your willing to spend more for a "better" cooling solution read the other posts.

    And on the memory see if you can set it to CL 2.0 instead of 2.5 (the usual default) in the bios (shorter wait delay). That way your 2100 ram benchmarks at close to the 2700 speeds until you finance the next upgrade. If the system gets unstable just put it back to 2.5.

    PS If you get the opportunity neuter whoever sold you that great motherboard and put a duron on it! $25 more is all a much better cpu would have cost.
     
  11. killerk

    killerk Guest

    the diff between the 2500 (1.83gHz)

    and the 3000 (2.25gHz) is about $200 Cdn.

    I'm wondering if I can overclock it to the speeds of the 3000+

    .... safely.
     
  12. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    many 2500+'s do oc to 3000+ clocks out of the box...

    there is no guarantee but there is precedence :)

    I do recommend a good cooler if you must oc... if for nothing else than to keep temperatures low...
     
  13. killerk

    killerk Guest

    Thank you for another great post LeeJend

    I actually had to replace my MSI board with this one, cause it got fried somehow. And I know it was the MB cause I swapped in my old ASUS ... which totally sucks.

    Now, I din't want to just go out and replace the crappy board with another one, so that is why I have a PIMP board and ****ty CPU.

    Upgrades to a whole system cannot happen overnight, they must be spread between pay checks, you all know this. :D :D
     
  14. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    The barton is well know as a good overclocker. It all depends on the chip you get and how well you cool it. There was a link posted in here to a site where people posted their Barton over clocking results.

    2700 should be pretty easy, If you want to go over that then one of the more expensive heatsink fans is recommended. But the diff between 2700 and 3000 isn't worth the effort (except for bragging rights).

    Risk is minimal just go in small steps and watch the temperature. 45-50 Deg C with the system not gaming is good. When you start getting crashes then back it off one notch on speed and play your most brutal game for an hour. Then check cpu temp is below 55 deg C and you haven't had any crashes. The gigabyte boards have decent cpu overheat protection as long as the heatsink doesn't fall off (happened to a friend on an MSI MB).

    Step 2 in pushing the clock involves increasing the cpu core voltage. This gets more risky (hotter) and shouldn't be required below 2700. That's what you do when you hit the stabilty limit and temp's are still good. Not recommended for the beginner.
     
  15. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    My upgrade policy is about 1 item every 3 months. I end up with a totally new system about every 18 months with no hit over $120 (I splurged on the 9500 PRO @ $200) :eek: and a junk box that amazes family and friends with my ability to fix their systems for peanuts.

    New article on toms hardware about tweaking existing memory.

    http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030701/memory_tuning-02.html
     
  16. killerk

    killerk Guest

    I'm not really a beginner, I am actually majoring in Computer Science (second year)

    I just don't really understand overclocking, I want to make the most of the hardware that I have. and I don't wanna F*CK stuff up. There is nothing more annoying than breaking your own stuff.

    I have many horror stories.


    ** EDIT - not just from me ;)
     
  17. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    per the grapevine the yields are so good on the bartons that the 2500+ is actually a higher performance part but is being sold @ 2500+ to meet demands.. makes sense...

    out of the box aircooled oc's are around the 3000+ level w/o any problems (basically upping fsb should net a decent oc :) )

    as is you should ... as leejend says.. be able to hit around 2700+/2800+ clocks w/o even needing to tweak the voltage...

    bartons come unlocked... so you can play around with the multipliers quite easily :)
     
  18. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    I hear you. There's a reason I had to buy the 9500 PRO...

    My (new) overclocking rules are:
    1). Never, ever again overclock a video card (especially nvidia).

    2). Don't increase the cpu core voltage. It's not too bad at +5% but lifes too short to spend it telling the wife I just fried something else...

    3). Watch the temperature. It's telling you an important story. The temp will increase linearly when "things are good". If it hits the knee of the curve and starts going up faster you are at thermal runaway. Back the speed off a notch.

    4). I value my hearing. Sometimes the best cooling solution isn't worth the noise level.
     
  19. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    :)

    there is a reason I no longer promote overclocking...

    sure if someone wants to find out what precautions to take or what limits they may hit... I am sure we will be more than happy to find out the info for them :) or give advice based on our personal experiences...

    but the overall thing is... unless you are into extreme overclocking the benefits are minimal and the risks are exponentially increased the higher you go...
     
  20. Taurus

    Taurus hardware monkey

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    friend of mine has a 2500+ on his a7n8x 2.0... and it's running at 3200+ speed (11x200=2.2ghz) without any voltage increase whatsoever. very impressive. cooling volume is on the medium-low side, too.

    i think he sort of lucked out and you should only be expecting to get to 3000+ before messing with the voltages. but hey, you might get lucky too. :)

    since you're willing to buy good parts for your system, i suggest getting pc3200 memory. it's really not that much more than pc2700 and will let you overclock and/or have more aggressive memory timings. good investment.