FBI to have UK Data ?

[Erbmaster]

If global security is so important to the FBI, then why were US businesses/individuals openly allowed to donate money to the IRA?
For decades the UK was under constant terrorist threat and attacks from this terrorist organisation.
As this was largely funded from US contributions I find this latest initiative highly offensive.
Fund raisers actively canvassed public venues to promote and raise cash for this 'cause' in the US.
Where was the US offer of information when we needed it?

No system is secure, granted. Even the most isolated standalone machine has a weak component: The soft squidgy organic component behind the keyboard.
Giving said information to a nation that as already stated, has nowhere near the privacy/data protection laws of the originating nation, is a recipe for disaster.
Par for the course for two nations who consistently screw-up, time after time.

What would happen if UK/US relations broke down under the next administration of either nation? The UK was not an overseas province under US jurisdiction the last time I checked..

 

[Geffy]

I can understand the need of the US to verify or validate british citizens but they should not gain direct access to our data until their data protection laws are at least as strong as the ones in Great Britain. It is in fact in contravention of the Data Protection Act to provide personally identifiable data to a third party which does not have sufficient data protection policies without the written consent of the person to whom the data is related.

If you want to be a hassle you could write to the Data Protection registrar requesting all data stored about you by the government and a list of third parties with which that data has been shared. If any of those third parties do not have data protection policies to at least match the ones of Great Britain you can technically take them to court over it and have your data removed from the third party.

Its a long a convoluted system and thats probably why they think they can get away with it.

TBH though I'm not sure where they'd get the Iris info from anyway as they don't take it for passports, they instead use the fairly unreliable face biometry for those.

I suppose it would work something like this

1. Obtain Iris/Palm/Fingerprint artifact
2. Submit artifact to system
3. Wait for match
4. Match obtained, reports id number and which security service individual is known to
5. Contact security service for individuals personal details

Obviously the complexity of step 5 should vary depending on which security service initiated the search and which security service holds the data. If it was USA to UK then Data Protection comes into play. If its UK to USA then presumably the data should just be provided as the US has little to no Data Protection policies.

I reckon this kind of interoperation should be contingent on americans being allowed to be tried in the world court

 

[Dark Atheist]

the ID cards they were on about brining in and on new passports they were on about having biometric data

 

[mlakrid]

I reckon this kind of interoperation should be contingent on americans being allowed to be tried in the world court

What the heck is this supposed to mean??



Mike A!

 

[Dark Atheist]

the Hague

 

[mlakrid]

the Hague

I know WHERE the hague is... I am reffering to what he means by it...

According to the world courts ruling... if a country invades another... you are not allowed to help your ally in resisting?

Give me a break... both the world court and the U.N. are a joke.. as far as I am concerned the U.N. should be forced out of New York ... aslo the remaining members of the U.N should all pay their dues before making any statements with regard to U.S. policy...

In my eyes Geffy was spatting in the face of the U.S. by mentioning we are not a backer of the World Court...

By using the courts own logic, when Germany was dropping bombs on the UK, (and the rest of Europe for that matter) we shouldn't have even sent planes to the UK ...

Its funny... other countries pick and choose what is right or wrong based on what is happening today versus what the U.S. has done as a country to help other countries keep their way of life...

Mike A!

 

[Grandmaster]

LOL.

Imagine that! Countries making decisions based on what is happening today instead of what happened 70 years ago. The audacity! That fruity French bunch... why did they rescue America from the British anyways?

Let's send 'em all to Guantanamo.

 

[mlakrid]

LOL.

Imagine that! Countries making decisions based on what is happening today instead of what happened 70 years ago. The audacity! That fruity French bunch... why did they rescue America from the British anyways?

Let's send 'em all to Guantanamo.

Since were throwing history around, then you would know it wasnt the french at all who saved the US... more pointedly it was the Native Americans who were aligned with the French...

Also, they did it because they thought they were still the super power of the world, and had delusions of grandeur that they could take back what the British lost...

The U.S. did what the french could not... fight off the British Armada to establish itself as an independent nation...

Mike A!

 

[Dark Atheist]

and if Britain is so crap why do they speak our language , also it is surprising that the US wants in on this because not too long again this was proposed and the US flat denied any agency or Government access to America's intelligence files

 

[mlakrid]

and if Britain is so crap why do they speak our language , also it is surprising that the US wants in on this because not too long again this was proposed and the US flat denied any agency or Government access to America's intelligence files

:crosseyed: I did not say anything about UK or Brits being crap.. you do talk funny but thats about it...

sheesh... it works like this...

Each country has their own datastores with "subjects" data...
Each country has access to each datastores
Each country does NOT Have access to the databases themselves, and are only notified when one of "said subjects" which meets one of the three criteria is found to be boarding or crossing borders... I.E. a suspected individual has been found to left Pakistan on plane to Yemen...

They do this to try and track possible terrorists...

The system CAN work, doesn't mean it WILL work...

Several of the agencies I work with have similar systems where no one from each agency can access the others work, but DO get updates when something matching their requirements comes on the screen...

I don't know if this makes ANY sense, its the best I can explain it without getting myself in trouble...

Mike A!

 

[Dark Atheist]

yes but in this case they WILL have direct access to the information on each others systems, well that is how i read it anyway

 

[mlakrid]

yes but in this case they WILL have direct access to the information on each others systems, well that is how i read it anyway

I dont think so... here is a quote from the very link you posted:

"Biometric measurements, irises or palm prints as well as fingerprints, and other personal information are likely to be exchanged across the network. One section will feature the world's most wanted suspects. The database could hold details of millions of criminals and suspects."

and it goes on to say:

" The FBI is proposing to establish three categories of suspects in the shared system: "internationally recognised terrorists and felons", those who are "major felons and suspected terrorists", and finally those who the subjects of terrorist investigations or criminals with international links. Tom Bush, assistant director at the FBI's criminal justice information service, has said he hopes to see a pilot project for the programme up and running by the middle of the year.
Although each participating country would manage and secure its own data, the sharing of personal data between countries is becoming an increasingly controversial area of police practice. There is political concern at Westminster about the public transparency of such cooperation."

Although admitedly it does not go on to say WHAT personal data is to be added to the biometrics...

Mike A!

 

[Dark Atheist]

well either way i still say its a bit of a grey area

 

[vern]

Benjamin aka Benny Franklin once said ... He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither. It is truer today than it has ever been. The only difference is it's easier to fool people today with big words and phrases such as "security".

 

[Geffy]

As Carpo mentioned there is biometric info on all new UK passports, though its facial biometry which isn't terribly reliable.

To clarify I was taking a stab at the US not agreeing to the World Court, I say if the yanks want our personal info they should allow their citizens be tried by the world court. I only made this stab because it makes sense. The FBI basically wants a World Identity database which should go hand in hand with a world court

Course the whole plan will be moot if the British Government is responsible for farming out the related IT contract

 

[X-Istence]

As Carpo mentioned there is biometric info on all new UK passports, though its facial biometry which isn't terribly reliable.

To clarify I was taking a stab at the US not agreeing to the World Court, I say if the yanks want our personal info they should allow their citizens be tried by the world court. I only made this stab because it makes sense. The FBI basically wants a World Identity database which should go hand in hand with a world court

Course the whole plan will be moot if the British Government is responsible for farming out the related IT contract

I think it is *******s that US citizens are not allowed to be tried in the world court. Just because someone is a US soldier does not give them the right to torture prisoners and then get away with it. If it was a Italian soldier, he would be tried and locked up.

 

[mlakrid]

To clarify I was taking a stab at the US not agreeing to the World Court, I say if the yanks want our personal info they should allow their citizens be tried by the world court. I only made this stab because it makes sense. The FBI basically wants a World Identity database which should go hand in hand with a world court

Well you didnt have to respond; however you did...

It also makes perfect sense... sorry I took it the wrong way...

Thanks Geffy...

Mike A!

 

[Grandmaster]

Who knows? Maybe the CIA already has a world identity database.

 

[falconguard]

Who knows? Maybe the CIA already has a world identity database.

They do.