Farenheit 9-11 Airs for $9.95; Stolen Honor airs for free

@Glass:

Thank you for that post, I love it! Everyone here should read it, especially the ones with american flags in theur signatures... Oh by the way, I love your comparison of the Patriot Act to Nazi Germany! Glad someone here has the guts to point it out. Oh and the 71%-thing....I can't agree more. Again: thanks! :)
 
the UN, an independent internal organization?
 
lol, no, I meant the UN, then also an independent internal organization, and then the 3 countries, heh.
 
why is kerry so evil for having stood up and said that we were in vietnam for the wrong reasons and we should never have been there?

there were MILLIONS of people including THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of vietnam veterans who united and railed against the administrations plans and policies... it was not just kerry...

kerry was a voice undoubtedly but it is beyond retarded for any veterans to sit down and say "omg... kerry made us get treated worse... he's bad... btw we are not partisan and we really wanted to say this before this election year but kerry was not running for office so no one would have heard our whining"

my wife's uncle was drafted... he served his time in vietnam... he received a purple heart for being wounded during the tet offensive... he spent his first 10 odd years back sleeping with a gun under his pillow... he still gets no medical benefits from the government after all this time simply because he was drafted...

he does not care about what kerry said... and he has every reason to if he chose to do so... he doesn't have anything to say about johnson or nixon either... he is over it and doesn't care anymore...

/me shrugs

if the veterans feel angst at kerry and kerry alone... they are sadly misguided and... unfortunately... buying into the partisan b.s. that has so enveloped this nation...
 
I love how it seems to be of the opinion that there is only one-directional partisan bull****.
 
Sazar said:
why is kerry so evil for having stood up and said that we were in vietnam for the wrong reasons and we should never have been there?

It's not really so much all the Vietnam vets, but the POWs who were called war criminals by both Kerry and North Vietnamese torturers. They kinda feel sore at Kerry because they were in excruciating pain for three to five years with his testimony waved in front of them constantly.
 
loki said:
Just a quick comment from my part. First: No offence meant here, absolutely not, but...well this is probably the most silly thing I have ever read on this forum. I know this is no place for politics-debates, but I think some of you americans still haven't understood the principle of voting. Ok, let me explain, nice and slowly:

1) You vote for the one you would like to be president, period. If he/she has any chance of winning is not of your concern.
2) If you do vote for another one, you are voting for the wrong one and waste your opportunity to vote for the right one.
3) If lots of people think "i'm voting for the one who is likely going to win", then it gets dangerous. You know, this isn't exactly the lottery. You can't win lots of money by picking the right numbers here. You should pick the one *you* want to be president, it's just as simple! Btw, do you know that voting for Bush/Kerry even if you would like to vote for Nader actually even deprives Nader of having a chance? Jeez, you americans :)
(again: no offense meant. what i read here just sadly fits the european cliché about americans: Blindly running behind the pack, having no clue what is really going on, no look spared to your right of your left, just follow the leader, even if he runs towards a disaster etc. Sorry for that but some of you are responsible for that negative image we have of you in general. I'm not saying that you ARE like that or that there aren't lots of people who aren't like that, okay?)

Hope Kerry wins!
(Well Bush wasn't elected last time and still got to be president....)

:)
Ok, guess I should have explained a little better, I asked for that one. If Nader had a PLATFORM I could agree with and a track record to go along with it I would have considered voting for him. My point still being...I am not infatuated with Bush, but my dislike for Kerry makes Bush the only option. I do agree with much of Bushs policy (not all), so I do not regret having to vote for him. I think we could do better with more than two VIABLE options.
 
Anyone who believes for a second that those veterans are non partisan or even really upset with Kerry is a fool. That sh|t was 30 years ago and Kerry is one dude of a million who spoke out against the American invasion, and now these guys are bitching about Kerry (in non partisan fashion, of course) right before an election in which Kerry is running? What are the odds of that? One in a gazillion, maybe? Yes, we actually have to make up a new number to calculate the odds of that happening. Pure right-wing propaganda, plain and simple. You'd have to be a drooling, helmet-wearing tard not to see that.
 
Unwonted said:
It's not really so much all the Vietnam vets, but the POWs who were called war criminals by both Kerry and North Vietnamese torturers. They kinda feel sore at Kerry because they were in excruciating pain for three to five years with his testimony waved in front of them constantly.
If they are indeed so misguided as to be upset with Kerry, then you know what, great, they can even publicly rail against him if they want to, that's fine. But to come back 30 years later just when Kerry is running for office and say they are non partisan is just such an obvious lie, it pretty much invalidates everything they say. There is no living person who does not have some kind of bias. Anyone who says otherwise is gearing you up for a steaming pile of bullsh|t.
 
Right, but MoveOn.org and Michael Moore haven't made any exaggerated and erroneous claims.

Bush 102, Kerry 77, Bush 56% of the pop vote. 168 to go!
 
I see some don't like my Flag waving...too bad! Here's some facts for ya:

From the current Federalist:

Which brings us to the greatest of Kerry's lies this campaign season: "It is vital for us not to confuse the war, ever, with the warriors. That happened before."

Indeed, it did happen before -- Vietnam. Swift Boat Vet Robert Elder notes, "It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home, and at home John Kerry was the field general." (Kerry's extensive and well-documented record of anti-American activities over the past three decades are covered in "Aid and comfort to the enemy: The Kerry record..." and "John Kerry: More aid and comfort..." at http://FederalistPatriot.US/alexander/)

Again, as President Bush noted, Kerry is "denigrating the actions of our troops and commanders in the field without knowing the facts...."

Kerry can't have it both ways. There is a direct correlation between his undermining of U.S. and Allied resolve in the war against terrorism -- specifically on the Iraqi warfront with Jihadistan -- and American and Allied causalities on that front. Those forces, including countless Iraqis, are being injured and killed in larger numbers because of the political dissent Kerry and his ilk are fomenting.

A few weeks ago, John Edwards unwittingly provided the evidence for this very correlation: "We lost more troops in September than we lost in August; lost more in August than we lost in July; lost more in July than we lost in June."

As Kerry's use of the war for political fodder has increased in tenor, so too has the spirit of our Jihadi enemies. As noted recently by Mohammad Amin Bashar, a professor at Baghdad's Islamic University, "If the U.S. Army suffered numerous humiliating losses, Kerry would emerge as the superman of the American people." Abu Jalal, an Iraqi resistance leader, added, "American elections and Iraq are linked tightly together. We've got to work to change the election, and we've done so. With our strikes, we've dragged Bush into the mud."

The net effect can certainly be felt in terms of increased numbers of American and Allied casualties. Those casualties equal more votes for John Kerry. This was, and remains, the unavoidable consequence of Kerry's reckless campaign rhetoric. The blood of those American Patriots (like the blood of his "brothers" in Vietnam, after he used that war as fodder for his 1972 congressional campaign), is on John Kerry's hands. To be sure, this is the harshest of all condemnations. But it is also the truth.

Both Kerry and Edwards know the consequences of their actions. Fact is, they think the lives of American military personnel on the warfront with Jihadistan are second-rate to their political ambitions. He should be held accountable.
 
And to address the silly-ass AWOL crap...for those that DON'T understand how the Guard works:

http://www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx

Bush’s National Guard years
Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?
That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?

News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:

The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).

Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”

So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.

Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.

In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.

Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.

During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.

A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”

A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”

Now, it is only natural that news reports questioning Bush’s service — in The Boston Globe and The New York Times, on CBS and in other outlets — would come out now. Democrats are spitting mad over attacks on John Kerry’s record by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

And, as it is with Kerry, it’s reasonable to look at a candidate’s entire record, including his military service — or lack of it. Voters are perfectly able to decide whether it’s important or not in November.

The Kerry camp blames Bush for the Swift boat veterans’ attack, but anyone who has spent much time talking to the Swifties gets the sense that they are doing it entirely for their own reasons.

And it should be noted in passing that Kerry has personally questioned Bush’s service, while Bush has not personally questioned Kerry’s.

In April — before the Swift boat veterans had said a word — Kerry said Bush “has yet to explain to America whether or not, and tell the truth, about whether he showed up for duty.” Earlier, Kerry said, “Just because you get an honorable discharge does not, in fact, answer that question.”

Now, after the Swift boat episode, the spotlight has returned to Bush.

That’s fine. We should know as much as we can.
 
I absolutely DESPISE Michael Moore. I would kill him if I met him. That's not the point though. The point is, you are the first person to mention either Michael Moore or moveon.org in this thread. No one said they didn't make exaggerated claims, so why are you bringing it up? It's not what we're talking about. Typical right-wing politics. When you don't have a rebuttal, spin the topic around.
 
So, ThePatriot, you actually believe that Iraqi insurgents are killing more Americans because Kerry is antiwar, not because American soldiers have invaded their homes, killed their families, and are taking their sh|t over? LoL. Right.

Iraqis wouldn't be killing any Americans at all if Bush didn't send them over there.
 
The title of this thread has Farenheit 911 in it.

You brought up 527 groups, eventhough the SwiftVets have a hell of a lot more credibility, another obvious can dish it out, but can't take it. So put down your French flag and tell me how Kerry could actually do a better job? 1) Rasing taxes. 2) Cut and run in Iraq. 3) Buddy up with the UN, whose corruption makes the US Gov't look clean.

Doesn't matter, looks like Florida is going the way of the W, Bush also has a decent pop vote lead. Mr. Ketchup will be back to not showing up for the Senate in no time.
 
Did you ever hear the term "United We Stand, Divided We Fall"? Some junky on the corner of 5th and Main didn't think that one up son. Yes, he is causing more casualties with his actions, along with Moore. Period. I don't want to start or continue a flame war here, but if you cannot understand that basic concept, you have a lot of learning to do.
 
Glass said:
So, ThePatriot, you actually believe that Iraqi insurgents are killing more Americans because Kerry is antiwar, not because American soldiers have invaded their homes, killed their families, and are taking their sh|t over? LoL. Right.

Iraqis wouldn't be killing any Americans at all if Bush didn't send them over there.

More democratic troop bashing. Its this belief which is why the troops overwhelmingly support Bush, because Kerry will undermine everything they have worked hard for, same way he did 30 years ago.
 
I don't see how questioning a Presidents view on a war has anything to do with "troop bashing". I think some people are just so dead set that any attack on them is taken to the extreme. I think questioning the President on such a thing is what would make you an Amearican. Should we not call the man on actions that everyone can see are anti-US and uncalled for?
 
Somehow I doubt that Iraqi insurgents are sitting on their ass watching Fox News Channel and seeing Kerry speak out against the war, then get up and resolve to kill more American soldiers then they did yesterday.

And dude, I am NO democrat. I hate democrats as much as I hate republicans. I hate all politicians. Politics is just a charade, a veil created to satisfy the masses.

And how was what I said 'troop-bashing?' All I did was point out why Iraqis are killing American soldiers.
 

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Also Hi EP and people. I found this place again while looking through a oooollllllldddd backup. I have filled over 10TB and was looking at my collection of antiques. Any bids on the 500Mhz Win 95 fix?
Any of the SP crew still out there?
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Just did some crude math and I apparently joined almost 18yrs ago, how is that possible???
hello peeps... is been some time since i last came here.
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