Do we need a National ID Card?

Discussion in 'Green Room' started by gonaads, May 10, 2005.

?
  1. Yes, I think we should have a National ID card

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  2. No, I don't think we should have a National ID card

    17 vote(s)
    51.5%
  3. I'm not sure one way or the other

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  1. gonaads

    gonaads Beware the G-Man Political User Folding Team

    I submit this question to a U.S. Citizens and all that live in the United States. But please, any and all from other countries please give some feedback as to the way it is in your country and what you think about this. :)

    There is Congessional deliberation over the RealID Act of 2005 (H.R. 418). It has raised questions about the need for a National ID Card. Now this act would allow federal officers to include driver's license info/data in a network of databases. Now this act doesn't specifically call for an ID card but many of this acts opponents are saying that this act could lead to that. Now imagine a driver's license becoming a traking device that's able to monitor your every move. Now the proponents of this act say that it would be a usful tool against terrorism. Some say it's not a bad idea.

    Now I have read and heard some people say, "We're going to have to get use to the idea of giving up some freedoms inorder to protect ourselves". Others, "I already have a national ID card-it's called my Social Security card. We don't need any more government intervention, terrorism or not".

    I myself feel that the government, our U.S. government is taking away more and more of our rights and freedoms as U.S. citizens. They use the blanket term of "terrorism" and "national security" as excuses for taking these rights away from us. We where givin the rights anfd freedoms we have by our founding fathers when the created the Constitution of the United States.

    The Preamble says it all:

    So I guess we are supposed to give up our liberties huh? It kinda gets me like the situation on Illegal Aliens in this country, that they (the government ) doesn't want them to be able to have or get a driver's license. Now are we going to go back to when we had people on the roads and highways driving illegally (Yes there are still some out there, but not as many)? And when they are involved in an accident with someone that has a license, what? If they don't have a license they sure aren't going to have insurance. So the person that gets hit is shiit outta luck? What if your car is totalled and you don't have a brand new car, it's an old car, but the only one you could afford and your insurance company is only paying you some crap amount for it's value. Who is going to help you, the government? Are they going to replace your car? Hell no! They are only worried about illegals having a driver's license. They could care less about the consequences of someone out there driving without one and causing serious harm without any insurance or any way of paying the insured licensed driver. Now if they (illegals) and we (citizens) all had a license there would be less problems.
     
  2. gonaads

    gonaads Beware the G-Man Political User Folding Team

    Follow up as to the Driver's license rant...

    You know that for a while we as drivers did not need to have car insurance, but it was a good idea to have even if you were the best driver ever. Then they passed the law that everyone must have proof of insurance. You can't register your car if you're not insured. You can't drive it if it's not insured. And if you have an accident without it, you are screwed. So why the hell don't they make it a law that everyone that wants to drive has a license? Let all the undocumented people get licenses. It would be a safer place as to drivers since they would also have to have insurance. And well geeeee... with a drivers license and that magnetic strip on the back the Gov in a way knows about you. Or at least who you are. Yeah this is off the topic I started but it all seems to blend together. Sooo many rights and freedoms going going gone... Sad really.
     
  3. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    I think it's a great idea for anyone with any kind of authority to be able to stop anyone and everyone they would like to stop and force that person to show papers...what could possibly be better then this?

    this worked great for the nazi's, and now that police are allowed to make up charges against whoever they want with no accountability, this will add to that

    this is gonna be gr8
     
  4. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    The Constitution is a living document, therefore, it adapts to the conditions of our nation. If it becomes the case that freedom has to be redefined (not taken away) in order to secure our nation and people from harm, then the Constitution allows for that. I'm not ready to claim a side on the ID card issue because I have very little information and facts on the subject at this point. It is an interesting issue, though, and I would like to learn more about it.
     
  5. ming

    ming OSNN Advanced

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    Compulsory ID cards restricts freedom of the people more than anything in my opinion.
    There'll be more stop & search on the streets with ethnic minorities being the targets instead of targetting mainly those who commit a crime.
     
  6. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    Allow me to take this in another direction for a second... and just to make it clear, this is only my opinion.

    From the standpoint of national security, it must be difficult for the government (President, Congress, House, Security branches) to plan/discuss/initiate/implement change that affects all Americans and is not perceived (by anyone) to impose on our freedoms. It's quite likely that it's impossible. Again, this strictly refers to laws or policy that concern security, from terrorists for example.

    It always seems like peoples' view of the government's role is emotionally charged. After 9/11 for example, people (myself included) were yelling at the government for not preventing the event and crying for the government to make changes that would prevent such events in the future. Years later, the government is considering changes that might positively impact the success of security for the future. Most of us are now much more detached from the events of 9/11 and our emotions are more stable that they were on 9/12 or even 2/17/02, and we aren't too fond of such a change because it might detract from our freedoms.

    I see it as a big Catch-22 for the government, regardless of who is President.
     
  7. Johnny

    Johnny .. Commodore .. Political User

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    What freedoms are they taking away ?? You talking about privacy?? Well we don't have privacy anymore, the government already knows more about you than you do. There is already talk of doing away with ssi#'s anyhow. I think this is great idea.
     
  8. celticfan11

    celticfan11 Moderator

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    spread peace not id cards..
     
  9. mlakrid

    mlakrid OSNN BASSMASTER Political User Folding Team

    Myself I like the Idea of a national ID card. Not for any of the other reasons mentioned I will list why on mine:

    When I moved from South Carolina to Virginia, I went to obtain my drivers licsense.

    I was asked to provide 7 pieces of information to inclue 2 photo ID's, proof of residence, proof of time in residence AND proof of insurance, proof of SSN (WHICH GET THIS CAN NOT BE YOUR SSN CARD), and a copy of your current title.

    Here is the rediculous link of documents:

    http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv141.pdf

    Now I wouldnt be against all of this except what sense does it make that an alien from mexico can use his green card, and I can NOT use my F*&#&^@ SSN card?

    So, a national ID card which would be accepted in all the states I could handle...

    damn beaurocratic retards...
     
  10. Petros

    Petros Thief IV

    Messages:
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    We already are completely tracked by credit cards, social security numbers, and other electronic means. Just having an ID card that looks the same (or at least similar) across the nation would only benefit us without losing any more privacy and control than we already have.

    Por ejemplo: I worked at a department/grocery store in Oregon, and if someone handed me an ID from Kentucky, it could easily be faked. I have no idea what a Kentucky ID looks like. A standardized form of identification wouldn't hurt.
     
    mlakrid likes this.
  11. mlakrid

    mlakrid OSNN BASSMASTER Political User Folding Team

    Agreed!

    :D
     
  12. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    I think it'll be great...for instance, I'm gonna get a job of some authority, and if I don't like the color of someone's beard, I'm just gonna ask'm for their papers whenever I see'm till they shave or move, one or the other, I won't care either way

    this will especially be true when I see anyone using an amd chip on their computer since I want everyone to use intel

    I really can't think of anything that will be better then this, really, it's gonna be gr8

    better, if I see a girl REALLY hot, I'm gonna get her to show me her papers and find a way to bump into her where she hangs, which will be in our data base...ohh baby, I can't wait for that...this is SUCH a good idea, it's gonna be great for anyone who can get a job of authority...I'm signing up now so I'll be ahead of everyone else
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2005
  13. Petros

    Petros Thief IV

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    Did you read HR 418? It didn't have any provision requiring it to be produced at any time or any reason. It's just standardization of the forms we already have for ease-of-use and cost reduction. I spent a year in Korea (which has standard driver's licenses), and it doesn't seem to be a problem over there. Just because Oregonians' and Kentuckiites' licenses look the same doesn't mean they are living in conditions paramount to Nazi Germany.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2005
  14. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    ramifications will abound

    for instance, there is no provision for police to perjure themselfs in order to put whoever they want in jail.

    however...
     
  15. gonaads

    gonaads Beware the G-Man Political User Folding Team

    WOW! We have a discussion. Cool. :D

    Now think about this. You have a National ID card you travel to different states. The Gov knows, due to the "strip" on the back of this card. Now it's gonna have to have a "strip" so when they (any law enforcement, mom 'n pop store, gas station, and or hotel/motel, eating establishment) ask to see "ID" for whatever. They will "swipe" it through their terminal and boom... it goes to a central database is checked and triple checked to make sure that the person using the ID card is who it is. A complete map of all your transactions travels everything that you would have to show your "ID" for. Now let's go one step further, all this info on everyone is located on/in a network of databases... geeeeee, ooooops it got hacked and the identities of millions of people is now in the hand of who knows who. There goes your life savings, your everything. Kinda scarry if ya ask me.
     
  16. Kush

    Kush High On Life!

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    i believe in this, in the arab world every country has national id. in saudi arabia if the saudis lose the national id, they cant get another one for 2 years as well as leave the country and this one thing u cant use connections to get out of. i still havent had time to do my egyptian one, in egypt if u are stopped by police and dont have one u go striaght to jail but i guess i would be an exception since i dont live there
     
  17. Petros

    Petros Thief IV

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    If a government official or agency (IRS, FBI, Police) wants to stick it to you, they have more and worse ways than to do it with an ID card.
     
  18. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    I don't get my DL swiped when I'm asked to present ID while purchasing something. ???
     
  19. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    you will though, this is where we are going, and this is the very reason to resist this program

    read themafia69's post
     
  20. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    themafia.69 lives in Saudi Arabia. Are we going to copy their policies?