deep throat; patriot or traitor?

[Petros]

I can see the movie tagline now:

Deep Throat: How One Man Opened His Mouth to Take on Dick

As a side note: corruption is corruption, big or small. I don't like how he did it (breaking the law to catch lawbreakers), but at least he kept wrongdoing in check.

 

[Perris Calderon]

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. " Edward Abbey

Lets not forget there is a VERY fine line between PATRIOTISM and TREASON."

at one point, all guilty of treason:

Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery, Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott, William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris, Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark, Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross, Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton .

poignent

 

[Grandmaster]

pardon the ignorance (being born after all that crap happened [i think])... how did the guy get the name 'Deep Throat' and do i even want to know?

The Washington Post gave him the name after the 1972 porn movie, of course.

More Info

 

[rotjong]

For those who ponder why Felt wasn't more vocal and public about the Watergate case and follow the chain of command I ask you to refer to The Huston Plan.

The Huston Plan was approved by Nixon in July of 1970. It essentially allowed domestic and intelligence operations w/o a warrant. This included wiretapping and breaking and entering. Basically, it allowed anything. Hoover never approved of this because he thought it would cost him power so in June of 1971 Nixon circumvented Hoover by creating a Special Investigation Unit. This group became known as The Plumbers. Their stated purpose was to stop national security leaks.

An example of what The Plumbers would do is when they broke into Dr. Lewis Fielding's office to get medical records on Daniel Ellsberg. Dr. Fielding was Ellsberg's psychiatrist. Ellsberg is the Pentagon official who leaked The Pentagon Papers to The New York Times. Why would they do this? Ellsberg was already facing criminal charges. More leverage?

Even after the Supreme Court found wiretapping to be illegal The Plumbers continued doing it. Breaking and entering also continued. John Dean, himself, compiled a list of enemies. These enemies ended up being the targets of IRS harrassment and oh-so-fun tax audits. Dirty tricks were carried out by CREEP (Committee to Re-Elect the President) aides with the endorsement of the White House during the re-election campaign. This of course leads up to the Watergate break-in of the DNC headquarters where wiretaps were being planted.

I wonder what would have happened to Mark Felt had he followed the chain of command...

rotjong

 

[Mastershakes]

Should have followed protocol and taken the case thru the chain of command and ultimately to Congress. End of story. There is no excuse for taking it to the press...unless you count the $$$ he was most definitely paid. Now he's looking to cash in again before he kicks the bucket. NOT a Patriot.

If he was truly doing it to protect the country, he would have did it right.

Can you actually back your statement up? 'most definately' means nothing.

was he paid? do you know for sure? is it published somewhere?

 

[Petros]

Can you actually back your statement up? 'most definately' means nothing.

was he paid? do you know for sure? is it published somewhere?

Neither party would ever admit to being payments made. Leaking sensitive information is illegal, but leaking sensitive information for money (or paying for it) is far, far more illegal. If you're going to be morally upstanding, honorable, heart-of-gold, will-of-iron, honest, brave, red-blooded, shedding-tears-for-your-country, patriot in defense of the Declaration of Independence, you definitely wouldn't spoil it by taking any amount of money for the revelation.

Back then, television networks were the only voices in America with a national presence; if they liked what you had to say, it was shoved down the collective throat of the nation as long as they felt necessary. If they didn't like it, your story would never see the light of day. There was no internet that allowed people to communicate freely with every other person in the world. If you wanted America to know something, big-name reporters were the ones to go to.

 

[ThePatriot]

Ok, I must make clear also that what he did was correct...just the way he went about it was wrong.

There was more than one route, or "chain of command" to follow in this adventure, so the arguement about the corrupt chain is invalid. I don't have any definite info on his making money either then or today, but the whole thing wreaks of cash.
Of course,

Maybe Bob Woodward didn't give him cash for the story

, maybe it wasn't all about the Benjamins after all hence the "Deep Throat" moniker. :laugh:

 

[Mastershakes]

That's what I wanted to hear. So he cannot back it up.

Just idle, useless specualation.

What laws are applied in these illegal leaks? being far more illegal if you take money.... is the 'far' related to another law being broken in addition to simply leaking the information? How are these laws enforced? Did Felt spend all this time in jail ?

Your second paragraph is golden. 'back then' ? America is being snowed even worse now. Spin City. If you want America to know something, the best avenue is still the reporters. Internet doesn't have the sway, yet....

 

[Sazar]

You do not take things up the chain of command if there is no action likely to be taken and it is clear and apparent that illegal activities are taking place.

Nixon didn't leave because he was framed, nor did the others assosciated with him get arrested or leave because they were innocent.

All these men were GUILTY of lieing to the american people and abusing our trust (I say OUR loosely since many of us were probably not alive then).

Today's administration follows a similar protocol though more vehemently than did Nixon in blackballing anyone who dare speaks against the administrations policies. Given this and the level of secrecy as well as the lack of tape recordings ( ) it is very unlikely we will ever see anything like Watergate again.

Deep Throat did the right thing. He took the most correct action that would bring maximum visibility. Same for the man who blew the whistle on the tobacco industry. Men like these are few and far between, in having the cohones to take on a far more powerful organisation.

Patriot or traitor? Why pigeon-hole them I say.

 

[Son Goku]

FYI, Watergate was not the only thing Nixon was impeached for. During a class I had many years back, all but 1 of the counts of impeachment were wrt Watergate. The other charge was abuse of the IRS tax auditing system, to essentially use it as a weapon in going after political enemies... It had nothing to do with enforcing tax codes here, and everything to do with abusing the power of the IRS for political reasons...

Sometimes public exposure is the only thing that will make any difference, when those in charge are acting unethically and/or illegally. They don't always care about this, but negative PR, they do. Given the circumstances, no I don't think Deep Throat acted wrongly...

 

[ThePatriot]

That's what I wanted to hear. So he cannot back it up.

Just idle, useless specualation.

What laws are applied in these illegal leaks? being far more illegal if you take money.... is the 'far' related to another law being broken in addition to simply leaking the information? How are these laws enforced? Did Felt spend all this time in jail ?

Your second paragraph is golden. 'back then' ? America is being snowed even worse now. Spin City. If you want America to know something, the best avenue is still the reporters. Internet doesn't have the sway, yet....

He goes crying to the press, skirting ALL protocol, defying EVERY rule inherent of his position, of his trust, and you think it wasn't done for money in some aspect?

What happened to integrity? As I said, if he truly did it for the love of his country, he wouldn't have gone to the press with it. Period.

As I said, I believe he was right in blowing the whistle, I also firmly believe he did it for both honorable and less than honorable reasons.

Idle speculation? Maybe. Useless? Well, if it smells like a dollar and it looks like a dollar and it feels like a dollar then it's most likely a dollar.

Sazar, the press is, and will always be the wrong path to take in my eyes, as they are almost as crooked as the politicians...BUT, I totally agree with your last sentence. I said in my first reply he was no Patriot, but I did not call him a traitor, nor will I. Misguided perhaps, ulterior motives perhaps. I don't believe he did it only for the cash, but I think he saw an opprotunity. Can't really lay either label on him.

 

[Mastershakes]

"Idle speculation? Maybe. Useless? Well, if it smells like a dollar and it looks like a dollar and it feels like a dollar then it's most likely a dollar."

Agreed. I just wish we could back it up.... until then we have a theory.

 

[Sazar]

He goes crying to the press, skirting ALL protocol, defying EVERY rule inherent of his position, of his trust, and you think it wasn't done for money in some aspect?

What happened to integrity? As I said, if he truly did it for the love of his country, he wouldn't have gone to the press with it. Period.

As I said, I believe he was right in blowing the whistle, I also firmly believe he did it for both honorable and less than honorable reasons.

Idle speculation? Maybe. Useless? Well, if it smells like a dollar and it looks like a dollar and it feels like a dollar then it's most likely a dollar.

Sazar, the press is, and will always be the wrong path to take in my eyes, as they are almost as crooked as the politicians...BUT, I totally agree with your last sentence. I said in my first reply he was no Patriot, but I did not call him a traitor, nor will I. Misguided perhaps, ulterior motives perhaps. I don't believe he did it only for the cash, but I think he saw an opprotunity. Can't really lay either label on him.

I don't understand this at all. You advocate that the ends justify the means in a foreign country, Iraq. But you don't advocate the same for THIS country when a president and his staff were blatantly abusing their authority and lieing to the american people and SPYING on the american people?

THAT to me is treasonous, to spy on your fellow country-man w/o reason. Deep-throat circumvented all the bureaucracy because he knew if he did not, he also would be under surveillance and shut-up.

Considering his actions and what they helped expose, there is absolutely no way you can justify your comments after the way you have vindicated Bush and his staff for their actions. It does not equate.

 

[ThePatriot]

I don't understand this at all.

Yep, you got that right, you don't.

 

[Son Goku]

I don't understand this at all. You advocate that the ends justify the means in a foreign country, Iraq. But you don't advocate the same for THIS country when a president and his staff were blatantly abusing their authority and lieing to the american people and SPYING on the american people?

See, where the public is spied upon in the manner suggested (and I'm well aware of some things such as COINTELPRO, our the FBI's counter-intelligence programs that existed at that time that came out in the 1970s during Congressional hearings on such matters); I'm of the opinion that the public should know, and should be informed... Besides, sometimes in a democracy (or actually republic) such as ours, public opinion can apply pressure where otherwise some might not care...

 

[Sazar]

Yep, you got that right, you don't.

Perhaps then you might care to explain the apparent hypocrisy of the mindset here.

Both situation involved the use of going beyond the established norms and protocols. Why agree to one while shunning the other?

On my end I can see my position also being two-faced because it involves my acceptance of what Felt did while I completely disagree with Bush. Ulterior motives and expected outcomes weigh on my decision. What about you?

 

[Johnny]

well, One: They way you supported Kerry and Still support Clinton makes me think you are not a republican, perris. Two: Deep Throat is a traitor. He was looking for nothing but his own personal gain ..

 

[Sazar]

Clinton was a republican, we just don't know it yet

 

[Son Goku]

:rofl As to Clinton being a Republican, would that include President Clinton, or her husband? Sorry, just couldn't resist that one...

One thing I would say, The Patriot is right about one thing here. The media can be as corrupt as politicians... And yet I'm not against someone going to the media at times and under certain circumstances; and actually am rather happy that what happened in the 1970s, did in fact happen.

Whether it's the politicians or the media, sometimes it can come down to "what can we get away with?" Public accountability isn't always there, when the the public is unaware/they don't have to suffer bad PR. It would be nice if some actually cared about the country or it's citizens, but sometimes money and public image is what really matter to some...

In both cases, some public exposure/pressure can place that limit (and bring up the issue of public accountability) as the voting public, aka constituents can then say "thus far and no further... We will not support this..."

The same can apply to the media wrt media watch groups and the like, which can hold an equally vital service as people can reply to the media, and give them that certain public attention which can help hold them in check as well...

 

[ThePatriot]

Perhaps then you might care to explain the apparent hypocrisy of the mindset here.

Both situation involved the use of going beyond the established norms and protocols. Why agree to one while shunning the other?

On my end I can see my position also being two-faced because it involves my acceptance of what Felt did while I completely disagree with Bush. Ulterior motives and expected outcomes weigh on my decision. What about you?

Without writing a book, I think the easiest explanation I could give would be to say my reasoning is exactly 180 degrees from your last paragraph. We think exactly alike, just from opposite ends of the spectrum.

LOL "Clinton was a republican, we just don't know it yet " :laugh: now that was funny!