Columbine 5 years later.....The Answer is still the same.

Discussion in 'Green Room' started by Taggert_LOA, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. Taggert_LOA

    Taggert_LOA Modding Addict Political User

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    On the Littleton Incident: The “Why” That Nobody Can Answer
    Most, if not all of us are quite well familiarized with the Littleton Incident by now. For those of you who aren’t, a brief synopsis: Two young men belonging to a group known as the “Trenchcoat Mafia” walked into Columbine High School 5 years ago and killed many people.

    The few hours’ work of these two young boys did more than the Unibomber and his years of campaigning, and the repurcussions have been felt by trenchcoat wearers everywhere. That may sound like a sarcastic comment, but it’s not. The majority of what follows was copied directly, taken from a letter I was sending to a person quite dear to me. It is my official position on the matter, and I defy any person to argue with it., as I know many of you will. The people sitting behind me here in this Denny’s Restaraunt are talking about Eric and Dillon, the two from Littleton, CO who shot up Columbine HS. They went from blaming Marilyn Manson’s music to Hitler’s birthday to 420 Day. They finally decided that the two were just bored.

    It’s just impossible to describe how much that angers me. Nobody seems to understand that Eric and Dillon were just pushed over the edge, that these kids were tormented every single ****ing day of their lives. Nobody seems to get it that Eric and Dillon’s lives were pure Hell, that the only way to let out their rage at the desperation and fear and those who caused it was to do what they did. Nobody. People blame bloody movies and violent video games and dark music, never realizing that these are what put it off for so long. Manson was release. Doom was release. Blade and Vampires were release. Without these, what were they to rely on to reduce the rage? Other people? Friends? Their only friends, thanks to the severe social class system invented by the typical high school subculture, were outcasts just like them.

    These friends were struggling enough through each day trying to control themselves. The friends could be relied upon to fully understand and appreciate the arduity of suffering through that subculture on a daily basis as a member of the single most hated, scorned, and misunderstood of its classes. They could be relied upon to understand like nobody else the pain, the desperation, the rage, but not to help deal with it. Each one of those boys’ friends did and still do have to go through that system of punishment, rejection, and total humilation every single day. Unfortunately, that renders them completely incapable of helping after a certain extent. Family? Their families didn’t even know that they were making explosives in the garage. Their families would have put them away, sent them away. That’s the family way of helping members deal with their problems. Often it’s with good intentions, but all too often it’s a hasty decision and not the right one.

    Counselors? Counselors merely indentify the problems, give them technical names, and blame them all on their patients. They never understand, and rarely actually help. At best, a psychiatrist could have prescribed them anti-psychosis medications. A psychologist, perhaps, may have been able to help them hold out a little longer, after which the fact that the child had been under psychological treatment would have reflected even more poorly on the patient. My mother tells me that they could have fought the system by going through it, like the whole sexual harassment bit did.

    It may have worked for that woman who lost her job for not ****ing her boss, but I’d like to know how it could work for a bunch of teens that nobody accepts, who have no credibility whatsoever. I could argue the case against whatever they might try to bring through and single-handedly win by a landslide. The minute most people see one of them coming, they go into a mode of intolerence, rejection, dismissal, and unreasonable scorn, based solely on their dress, their appearance. On top of that, add the deviant behavior which they engage in as a form of release— for the most part surpressing the urge to run around shooting everybody— and suddenly they need psychiatric care, institutionalization, and medication of large varieties. Right there I just made the case that every single other person has already made against them in their minds. It’s disgusting and there’s no excuse. I could win any case against them without saying a single word.

    NO EXCUSE. People say that violence is never the answer, but that’s so easy to believe when you’re not the one going through it. It’s always so easy to judge that way, without knowing both sides. When you’ve no one to turn to, when fighting back only makes it worse, and your only releases are looked down upon and not even enough, and violence is never the answer... WHAT IS??
     
  2. Taggert_LOA

    Taggert_LOA Modding Addict Political User

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    Now, don't get me wrong, here. The only people to blame for this are those two boys. They're the ones who made the choice to kill, to murder. What they did cannot be justified, no matter how hard anybody tries. Each of their victims were real, were human. They were real lives with real dreams, real hopes, real fears, real thoughts, real pains of their own.

    They each had likes, dislikes, plans, visions, futures. All of that was destroyed right then. In some cases, they faded slowly into oblivion. The lucky ones died before they had to plead or pray, beg, negotiate, or suffer minutes upon long minutes with a bullet or three invading their bodies. The lucky ones didn't have to feel their own blood on their hands, or know as they felt the blood draining from their wounds, the heat from their skin, the life from their bodies, that there simply was no hope. The lucky ones didn't have a chance to utter a last to their four daughters. And now, hundreds of students from Columbine HS, in Littleton, CO, live wondering whether they could have done anything differently, if they could have saved that girl, that teacher, or that dear friend.

    So many will have to live with the horror of seeing that man's chest being torn apart from the inside as the bullets plugged their way through his back. How many will decide that they could have saved that poor boy, or that the nightmares of remembering that girl's neck exploding are too much? The official number of dead from Eric and Dillon finally settled on fifteen, but how many more will die because of them? I believe in the sanctity of life, but not firmly. Life is sacred, and that sanctity was violated when Eric and Dillon stormed that school and almost indiscriminately killed 15 people, without a care to their innocence or guilt, or to the psyches they left in shambles. That sanctity was also violated when Eric and Dillon were tormented on a daily basis.

    Their victimizers and those of anybody and everybody else who suffer this brand of alienation and torture show that same lack of caring. Their victimizers showed less than zero pity for their hopes, fears, dreams, and lives. They didn't care any more than Eric and Dillon did about their victims. Eric and Dillon and the rest of the “Trenchcoat Mafia” and every other so-called “freak” feel the same pain, take the same joy in a first kiss, take the same pleasure from a good meal, and feel the same satisfaction at finally getting that math problem solved.

    Eric and Dillon killed 15, obviously. How many more will kill themselves or others because of what they did? How many have already killed themselves because of the actions of their tormentors? There's only one difference between the pair of murderers from Columbine HS and the thousands of other victimizers around the country: Eric and Dillon did it quickly, by their own hands, in many ways more mercifully. One set is of murderers, and the other of killers.
     
  3. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    /me asks taggert to kindly introduce some paragraphs so that he can read the material...

    thanks :)
     
  4. chaos945

    chaos945 Moderator

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    I got about half-way through before my eyes crossed.
     
  5. mooo

    mooo thecyberninja

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    wow that is a lot.. someone just give me the idea on what its saying :)
     
  6. X-Istence

    X-Istence * Political User

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    Any shortened versions? Sparknotes?
     
  7. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    well if tag doesn't edit it I spose I can hazard a try in an hour or so... just introduce paragraphs to make it easier to read...
     
  8. Taggert_LOA

    Taggert_LOA Modding Addict Political User

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    sorry guys when i rant i rant. this all started with an offhand comment by a punk kid who knew no better. I hope the edit works better for you.
     
  9. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I am not following the gist of your post...
     
  10. Taggert_LOA

    Taggert_LOA Modding Addict Political User

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    what is it you don't get? ok Here it is 5 years later they still blame music and violent games for the cause of the incident. the problem with that is they use this program called "no child left behind". Here it is. You have a child doing poorly, rather than helping the child you just pass him or her onto the next teacher, never actually taking the time to help the student, find out if there are domestic problems at home? at school? what can you do to ensure they get an education? why is it they have state of the art metal detectors and 20 year old books? the things teachers are supposed to do like teach they can't , so rather than try the take their tenure and babysit till it's pension time. and because of that you get columbine.
     
  11. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I think that parents need to have a little bit more responsibility...

    no matter what the hell the government does the primary responsibility is parents...
     
  12. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    Hold up ! Wait a minute let me put the beats in it! Sorry I teach at an inner city school, not a suburban one. The Most populated school West of the Mississippi, a high school population of 6000+...Yeah there are teachers who coast, but I and majority of teachers, dont teach for the money, believe me it is not worth it. You cant solve all of the problems of society by laying it the schools feet...Where were the parents when they were making pipe bombs in the garage. Just so you know there are 203 gangs in a 2 sq. mile area around the school
    (3.2 km for you brits.) anyways sorry ...on with tech stuff puleez!!!! :confused:
     
  13. chaos945

    chaos945 Moderator

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    I agree that teachers need to be better trained, although after 6 years of university for a Masters you'd think they'd be good to go.

    The fact is some 'teachers' as smart as they are just aren't good at teaching! They should go find another profession, its not like teaching is the ONLY thing you can do with that kind of degree.

    Another thing that would be very useful is having a permanent 'student teacher'. I don't know about you Yanks but in our school system, students learning to be a teacher 'assist' the main teacher for half a year or so then take over the class for a few months, while the main teacher goes on holidays or teaches other classes. This is a very good procedure and brings fresh ideas to teaching that some of the 'masters' and 'PhD’s get a bit stale on.

    Also yearly reviews and or random visits from a qualified 'inspector' to just watch the teacher teach and give a bit of input, because of student/parent input on worries of the quality of education being received. I know our teachers here have ‘workshops’ where they are supposedly going to learn the latest techniques in teaching together as a group, although recent news articles display rather poor attendance and waste, basically they are just going to have a big party. An ‘inspector’ seems a bit drastic and I realize this but something needs to be done about it and many revisions of a similar theme will likely prove the best results. Teachers, parents and students need to all take a part if change for the best is to occur. If the people change the government will change.
    I've never seen any security other than the resident police man in our schools here, didn't even know you Yanks had metal detectors in your schools. But then I guess you have a much higher population>crime rates. Come to Canada and take a break from your hectic lives in fearful America, its nice in the summer...really.

    /note
    Got a bit off topic there, had bad prof this semester and it really bothered me. Shelling out $1000's of dollars for school and **** instruction? I think not, I can learn more in the 'real world' and save my cash. I centralized on teachers but everyone needs help to affect change.
     
  14. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    Hey chaos the Minimum requirements for a california credential are two years , on top of the degree, just for teaching development. Not to mention professional develpoment points that need to be done every year, just to meove up to the next step, nevermind tenure. Yeah I had professors like that in the uni..some of these guys I'm sure could'nt relate to the lobotomized playmate of the month ( even if all she did was twitch and gurgle), At some of the higher end subjects or degrees , the professeors get down right scary
     
  15. chaos945

    chaos945 Moderator

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    Very interesting, here is a chart designed to lighten the mood.
     
  16. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    Most excellent!!! My mood has been lightened, do you get a rep point for that?
     
  17. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    Is there supposed to be some correlation between your first rant and this shorter one? I'm asking because I don't see how you get from "no child left behind" to Columbine...

    So violent games, movies, music etc. are not the problem... so what is the problem? Is it the immature "cool" kids at school that ridicule the "loser" kids every day? Is it the parents? Is it the government?

    Once you decide what the problem is, you need to come up with a solution. Do you actually want for government to have more control in order to take care of the kids, or would you rather the parents be more responsible?

    I believe it's the parents' responsibility. Are all parents responsible? No. But are we going to come to a point where there is a governmental screening process required for people who want to have children? No. So what we end up with is irresponsible parents with children that do things like Eric and Dylan did. So what's the solution?
     
  18. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    so we should come up with a genetic blot test for all parents? OMFG that is too funny , sorry you lower the IQ pool, no kids for you!
     
  19. muzikool

    muzikool Act your wage. Political User

    :p

    Would be scary wouldn't it? :eek:
     
  20. Geffy

    Geffy Moderator Folding Team

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    firstly wow, I can hardly believe it was 5 years ago, it still seems fairly fresh.
    have to agree that violent games and "dark" music should not be blamed, for me I play violent games and listen to darker music when I am pissed off and it makes be feel better given a few days.
    American schools can be a hellish place to grow up, I got to 7th Grade when my parents moved back out of the US and school became more enjoyable (in Norway). I maintain no contact with anyone from school prior to Norway, and I seriously never intend to, well except two who I would take great pleasure in beating the **** out of.
    That is probably the level that Eric and Dillion got to, in no way was what they did right, and I still fail to understand the americans principal on guns for the masses after events like this have happened, I know there is the Bill of Rights but common sense should come in there somewhere.