California Suspends 20 Middle Schoolers for Viewing Myspace

[kcnychief]

Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?

 

[mlakrid]

Nobody here has acknowledge the victim of this hate, even if it was out of school, out of school hours, that person still goes to the same school with the same people who were invoking hate towards them!
....

This could also potentially lead to a lot worse.
....
Inciting hate towards another person is. ...Would you say a piece of paper with the same content, was just a bit of paper? or a malicious phone call, was just a phonecall?

Its another form of bullying and has everything to do with the school as everyone involved is from that school, regardless of the time and location. If this was reported in the news and the school was doing nothing, then the school has failed and failed for the pupil and the system has failed and failed for the pupil!!!

Schools suspending pupils for matters which seem trivial are important for the integrity for the school! they have to maintain rules and regulations and a reputation. Remember, a school is a collective of teachers and anything bad will be seen as a reflection on them.

Ok Herein lies the problem...

I agree with the statements NOT bolded, the problem I have is with the statement I quoted from you in BOLD It is my opinion, that NO educational institution should be involved in private matters of ANY individual UNLESS they have broken the law or made threats...

The "other" students who were punsihed were punished because they didnt say anything, well EXCUSE me for being on the side of freedom and liberties...

This is CLEARLY abuse of power in the system. IF they were suspended solely for not saying naything, I feel as every person on that counties school board should be removed from office.

Just as the person who was flamed against, and openly threatened was protected, so should the people who did nothing wrong... they did nothing unlawful or illegal (at least this is how it appears thus far)

If anyone has anymore information on this as to WHY the "other" students were suspended, other than them not reporting the threats, then I feel this abuse of power should be viewed as an attack by our own educational system, and at a minimum, should be taken to civil court, those personell on the school board should feel the wrath of our own court system for abusing their powers.

**puts away soapbox**

 

[mlakrid]

Why are kids such pussies these days ? I got razzed in school with the rest of them. It builds character and filters out the weak.

Pussies, all because of a few pussy admins and their paranoid parents. Don't bug Jimmy !! He's sensitive!

Well, I agree to a point, you made refference to my joke, what if they had threatened to kill all muslims, what then Master?

Reps anyway....

 

[Mastershakes]

]It is my opinion, that NO educational institution should be involved in private matters of ANY individual UNLESS they have broken the law or made threats...

Bang on. Though the website may be viewed as an indirect threat. It is none of the school's business in the end.

 

[kcnychief]

Wouldn't it be funny if that website was a big joke, like TheOninon.com?

 

[Mastershakes]

Well, I agree to a point, you made refference to my joke, what if they had threatened to kill all muslims, what then Master?

Reps anyway....

heheh. Call in Georgie, he will declare the janitor has WMDs in his cleaning closet and an F18 will polish it off with that Vietnamese chick's amazing piece of work, the bunker buster. ( I don't think she can carry this ordinance - but anyways..)

I kid, I kid.

It definately becomes more sensitive once you get into that arena. A pussy would take massive insult to it, cry to anybody who would listen, and get a response. Others would shake it off, and disregard that persons opinion on the grounds that they are nieve, narrow minded and can generally be ignored.

I don't know how many times I had to witness minorities get picked on in Grade school. As the years went by however, I noticed those groups of people withstand the barrage, and walk tall, walk proud. If you don't let them face it, if you let them run behind mommy's leg and point, you have yourself a genuine puss who will never be able to take care of themself, and will always have a chink in their armour, susceptible to be hurt by WORDS.

I don't condone it, but I definately don't condone coddling and protecting excessively.

 

[madmatt]

Ban Internet usage in schools. They don't need it. Go back to using expensive text books. The Internet has ruined the world.

Actually, media has. But the Internet has made is easier for them.

 

[omg its nlm]

My Brother got suspend for calling a teach gay on myspace. We all lauged and thought it was the dumbest thing we have ever heard. Not like he was in school or anything.

 

[Aprox]

I think it all just roots back to the schools over stepping their powers as Leejend said. Even if they feel the need to discipline the children its really not their right nor their resposibility. Also, Mastershakes you are dead on about protecting these kids from being made fun of, Just like you I was made fun of, but it made me stronger and I stood up and made me the person I am today. It just pisses me off to no end what the schools think they have the right to do to kids just because they are forced to be there all day. I could just keep going agreeing with people, but I think it just boils down kids being kids except that this is a new era and the "kids these days" are going to be up to their hell raising in a different way now. The internet is the ultimate weapon for imature brats who want to sound big without having to face the consequences of talking trash.

The combination of things mentioned and the lack of parenting in modern society adds up to one fooked up situation that will hopefully work its self out with time as the generation ages and matures.

 

[falconguard]

NO, NO and uhhh NO.....

While I agree they needed to take steps against the student making the threats.. they had NO RIGHT to suspend people for looking at his post... and about your comments about the parents not turning the student making the threats in? How many times did you do something that was "questionable" and your parents NOT know about it?

So this makes it ok? I am sorry but I do not subscribe to that philosophy, and to do so shirks parental responsibility. You are responsible for your children, not the school and if you don't teach them morality, than you cannot complain about society going to hell in a handbasket. that is a piss poor argument. As a parent you have to be active, if you rely on society to do this for you than, you end up with a morally challenged youth who has better chances at jail or death than a productive life.

what next?
suspend a child for reading a book?
Example: anarchists cookbook?
Why?
Show me what law allows them to violate the students privacy?

In California there is a no bullying law. Yes I think it is excessive but for the act, that some administrations do not grow a back bone and take care of this problem themselves, now schools are mandated to enforce this stupid zero policy.
Student privacy? There is no such thing it is the same reason that administrators can open up a student locker in search of a gun or other contraband, without a court order and subpoena. As a student you have to abide by certain rules, hell you sign a contract in college, violation of those rules results in certain punishments.

So are we as adults supposed to report every single addult who runs a red light??

Come on people, comon sense is the better part of valor...

You forget that Adults are or should be engaged enough to know the law. Ignorance is no excuse to ignore the law, and you are misrepresenting the results these are youth who should be aprised of their actions by the adults in their life. These were not adults. Society judges adults who do not abide by their actions.


Parental culpability exists here, and to deny it is to foist the business onto someone else, namely the school.



Freedom and Liberty exists up until the point when you want to deny it to others. Than you are no longer free to say threatening things. That is the law

 

[Steevo]

Wow.

Alot of discussion for such a small thing.

1) A kid gets kicked out of school for posting hatefull comments on Myspace.
So what are his parents doing during this time while he is using myspace?

2) Other kids get kicked out of school for viewing¿ it, how would they know¿ or by POSTING?
What are their parents doing while they are doing these things.


The branches from two distinct problems.

1) The parents.
2) Lack of ass kicking ability, both on the schools side, and the parents.


I hope that noon ehere will be offended, cause if you are you will feel bad. If a child of mine has such a attitude, or were to post such a thing, I would beat his ass, then I would hope the principal would have the balls to paddle his ass.

When I went to school the coach, principal, and the teachers all had paddles, and weren't afraid to use them.

 

[falconguard]

I think it all just roots back to the schools over stepping their powers as Leejend said. Even if they feel the need to discipline the children its really not their right nor their resposibility. Also, Mastershakes you are dead on about protecting these kids from being made fun of, Just like you I was made fun of, but it made me stronger and I stood up and made me the person I am today. It just pisses me off to no end what the schools think they have the right to do to kids just because they are forced to be there all day. I could just keep going agreeing with people, but I think it just boils down kids being kids except that this is a new era and the "kids these days" are going to be up to their hell raising in a different way now. The internet is the ultimate weapon for imature brats who want to sound big without having to face the consequences of talking trash.

The combination of things mentioned and the lack of parenting in modern society adds up to one fooked up situation that will hopefully work its self out with time as the generation ages and matures.

So if a school can't enforce discipline on it's own campus who can? Granted this happened off campus which is where the parents come in. But to send kids to school and expect them to not have rules is just ignorant.

 

[Son Goku]

Said some posted AND commented.

As for the "myspace" thing, it's just the latest buzz word. Someone caught there kid doing something on it (because they paid attention for once) and now it's "evil". In a few weeks it'll be another site, or a game, or some other non-sense.

Oh yeah, so someone's kid takes the initiative to post something, someone didn't like; so now it's the site that's evil and needs to be stamped out. This while not putting the responsibility for anything posted, squarely where it belongs. Lets put this in some perspective... If someone posted that they hate president Bush, and wish (people can use their imagination) was done to him, in the hard talk section of this forum; would it reflect on this site, or the individual poster? If the comment was serious enough to get Secret Service to look into the matter, is it the site, and all of us who should be under investigation? Or is it the individual?

All in the world, that can blame video games and just about everything else, if a kid doesn't grow up the way expected; when the parent might leave the kid un-supervised for about 8-10 hours out of the day, and the person either played tag (cause it harms people's self esteem by always having someone who is "it"), or cops and robbers encourages terrorism, supposedly because "there's a bad guy". The list can go on and on...

I once saw someone write into a networking forum, and apperently the next door neighbor wanted a way to keep his daughter off instant messaging programs. When people made suggestions, it was always "too much work". He wanted a "solution" that would require no effort on his part whatsoever, so he could just leave the kid unattended for a year at the time, with no adult supervision, and she'd be forced to do whatever he wanted while away... As it turned out, he went away for 1+ years at a time, and wanted methods to limit his daughter's ability to socialize, which would require no effort on his part, and which wouldn't require him to take any time wrt his daughter, himself.

It finally came to the point (after pages and pages of suggestions were thrown aside as requiring too much effort), that people were asking who did all the cooking, the cleaning, and the raising of her younger sibblings. "Certainly not her? Else, if she is, I dare say, in this case the father needs behaviour modification, not the daughter..." There were even parents saying this, as it all came out

Metz said the students' suspensions in mid-Febuary were appropriate because the incident involved student safety. Some parents however questioned whether the school overstepped its bounds by disciplining students for actions that occurred on personal computers, at home and after school hours.

Totally crosses the line. Suspend someone because of what they might have read at home? If there's any room for action, it should be left to the parents to make such disciplinary actions in their own home. Not the school district...

 

[ThePatriot]

Totally crosses the line. Suspend someone because of what they might have read at home? If there's any room for action, it should be left to the parents to make such disciplinary actions in their own home. Not the school district...

I agree, BUT, when parents don't make those disciplinary actions, what then?

Unfortunately, the answer is...nothing. That's why, IMO, I see so many undisciplined kids running around. No one, including the parents, is willing, or is allowed by law to do the disciplining, and society ultimately suffers because now you have a problem that won't or can't be corrected and ends up on the taxpayers payroll either viay welfare or via incarceration.

A very tangled web.

 

[Son Goku]

My Brother got suspend for calling a teach gay on myspace. We all lauged and thought it was the dumbest thing we have ever heard. Not like he was in school or anything.

That's where you get someone to post anonymous, with a user ID that can't track back to them, and using an anonmizing poxy (or chaining several together), and possibly leading through foreign countries such as Korea... Let them try to convince these foreign governments of the need to try to force the records be turned over, so they can go after kids for saying whatever

Then, instead of such a joke, that might not have been meant in the most serious manner; mention dirty little secrets they'd rather not get out. Oh, things like, I don't know; perhaps similar to the following (all true):

- The algebra teacher in the high school I went to, who wasn't that good looking, only owned 2 pairs of pants, and didn't always watch them, had a fetish for pinching the behinds of female students when they left the classroom.

- That when charges of sexual harassment were made, nothing was really done about it. Furthermore, under state law, the school was constricted by law to post the number, where this could be reported to the state (if one felt the school didn't addequitely address their concerns), in places clearly visable to the students. According to some faculty, the number was only posted in the teacher's lounge, which students were barred from entering. Law violation right there

- When one teacher's husband attended a board meeting, he put the question to the priciple like this:

How many cases of sexual harassment, are you personally aware had been reported in this past year, and were brought to your attention? And out of those cases, what was done about them?

The principal's reply

There were six cases I am aware of. Nothing was done about any of them... (A couple minutes of hemming and hawing, and general umm, well, but...) It's not as bad as it seems... (Nice politically motivated dodge...)

Oh, we didn't have the Internet then, but we did get the local papers. And it became the news around the town for awhile. Unfortunately, the news only focused on the sexual harassement aspects, but there was much more. Mind you, the teacher (who's husband spoke) was formerly a professor at Yale University, and the school was ready to dump her for having spoken up and for having actually listened to the students. Many more teachers, even with tenure status quit their jobs out of protest, and went to another school, with indication they can't work there anymore with the way things were being run.

For my part, I wasn't popular with all the staff when it was done, and it was my senior year. For starters, when this all started blowing up, I inquired, and of all the things "well anyone can attend these meetings where this will be discussed. But we're not responsible to notify anyone of the time and place". I was like, "OK, fine, if you won't do it, then I will..." I took it upon myself to get that info, and started hanging posters all around the school.

So, next board of education meeting, the students flooded the place, and they didn't have enough seating for everyone. They had to move the meeting to the cafeteria. Now the students were vocal with their complaints, and question wrt the sexual harassment by certain faculty came up. They weren't prepared for it, and like many politicians, made several promises they had no intention of keeping.

Next meeting, I got the same info, but this time posted the info not only around the school, but on various bulletin boards all around the town too. For the first time, many parents who never attended also started flooding in, with the students. Some of the faculty was also getting somewhat irrate by the public exposure/attention they were getting Now it was so large they had to move it to the gymnasium...

All the mis-communication, misunderstandings, incorrect messages about what was going on, etc just started flooding out... The meeting left with the school board's feet to the fire, and the community no less irate... The media also showed up, and the meeting was covered in all the local newspapers the following day, with possibly some coverage on the TV news also. The admin reeled and complained that the meeting made it look like there wasn't effective communication going on, and how that just couldn't be and was an unfair portrayal. A large portion of the student body, and also the parents disagreed however.

When asked about what they promised the last time, "oh we didn't say that, but we'll consider it". Problem is, well over 100 people all heard them say it... And now they were on record with the media... I had some things I said also, which I really don't remember. The result however, is that from that day forward, half the faculty hated me, and would have nothing to do with me. The other half, pulled me aside in the hall and were like

Elloquent speech. Though many of my peers might dispise you for it, it had to be said...

and were patting me on the shoulder... That's the sorta thing to put on the Internet following, and in a manner that can't be easily tracked back without the resources of the NSA

 

[Son Goku]

I agree, BUT, when parents don't make those disciplinary actions, what then?

Unfortunately, the answer is...nothing. That's why, IMO, I see so many undisciplined kids running around. No one, including the parents, is willing, or is allowed by law to do the disciplining, and society ultimately suffers because now you have a problem that won't or can't be corrected and ends up on the taxpayers payroll either viay welfare or via incarceration.

A very tangled web.

Yeah, there can be a problem... But surely the answer isn't the school suspending people for simply having visited a website to see what was written on it. Those 9 students weren't responsible for what was posted there, anymore then any of us would be for what another person has posted. Besides, most of us don't have mod powers, to address the matter anyhow...

The "other" students who were punsihed were punished because they didnt say anything, well EXCUSE me for being on the side of freedom and liberties...

This is CLEARLY abuse of power in the system. IF they were suspended solely for not saying naything, I feel as every person on that counties school board should be removed from office.

Yeah, I agree... Consider how a nark can be viewed in school, and what can be done to them if their narking is found out... Sometimes it is best to remain silent, especially if it was words, printed to a website, off school hours. The one doing the narking, could end up becomming the object of the ire/revaltion of the student body itself...

 

[Aprox]

So if a school can't enforce discipline on it's own campus who can? Granted this happened off campus which is where the parents come in. But to send kids to school and expect them to not have rules is just ignorant.

You are taking what I said out of context, I said the schools are stepping over their bounds. I didnt say that the schools cant enforce anything, of course there needs to be law and order at schools or else everything would fall apart.
I just dont think schools have the right to reach into our personal lives this way. Who the hell do they think they are? Not everone has lazy parents...

I personally have been attacked by the public school system so maybe thats why I get so hot about it... but either way schools do not have the right.

 

[falconguard]

I think everyone here can remember an incident at a public school, thank god we all went to public school and not a private boarding school.:laugh:

The question remains, how did the school find out about this? Most likely it was discussed at school and when enough people found out, brought it to the attention of someone at the school. It was here that the school found out about this, after Columbine any threat is treated seriously.

I belong to the Steevo camp here, I believe the parents shirked their responsibility in finding out what there kids were doing online, but you notice no parents bought it to the attention of the school, or made their kid responsible for their part, only after the school suspended people who were involved did this even make the news. The kids met at school talked about a target at school even though they did this off of school time.

 

[Aprox]

Also we need to keep in mind, how many stupid things did or have you done as a kid that your parents never knew about? I know I have done a few... we all have. In all reality this myspace thing is such a trivial matter it hardly warrents a disiplinary action by parents anyways, at most a talk about how to treat people.

 

[falconguard]

Scars are proof that man can survive his own stupidity. We all have scars and they usually came at our own expense. But this does not translate into threatening others