Bush bashers...any comments?

[Perris Calderon]

As I said, a different view. I didn't think for one minute you would agree with what I said, just pointing out that not everything is black or white. There are plenty of grey areas that can be interpreted quite differently.

excellant post, and we agree 100%

 

[Son Goku]

giving you 50 cents and then charging you a dollar for what used to be provided is a tax increase...it's this type of book juggling that makes people thing the government is taking less money when in fact they are taking more

...your tax dollars have been increased, not decreased

You know one place where I've noticed this? Utility bills. As many people know, the utility bills come with a break down on exactly where the charges or comming from. On the whole my ISP has gone up about $2 per month, and my telephone had gone up from about $42 per month to about $50 per month.

So, I looked at the break down... On the ISP, it doesn't look like the basic service went up whatsoever. However federal fees (what's being shown for them) and the like which are listed on there had gone up.

Gamer ADSL 1.5/384 Spk-Self-Install (C-R) (Upload Boost)
3100 Jane Place NE Apt L206 Albuquerque NM
Service Period 01/14/2005 thru 02/14/2005 3620208
*Monthly DSL Line Charge 69.95
*Federal Regulatory Fees 2.13
*Tax Reimbursement: Telecommunications Relay Service Surcharge - State 0.03
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - State 0.36
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - County 0.02
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - City 0.11
*Tax Reimbursement: Telecommunications Relay Service Surcharge - State 0.09
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - State 1.22
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - County 0.07
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - City 0.36
*Regulatory Compliance Fee 1.55
Subtotal 75.89
Total Current Charges
75.89

And since the price increase:

Gamer ADSL 1.5/384 Spk-Self-Install (C-R) (Upload Boost)
3100 Jane Place NE Apt L206 Albuquerque NM
Service Period 02/14/2005 thru 03/14/2005 3620208
*Monthly DSL Line Charge 69.95
*Federal Regulatory Fees 2.52
*Tax Reimbursement: Telecommunications Relay Service Surcharge - State 0.03
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - State 0.40
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - County 0.04
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - City 0.11
*Tax Reimbursement: Telecommunications Relay Service Surcharge - State 0.09
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - State 1.35
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - County 0.12
*Tax Reimbursement: Sales Tax - City 0.36
*Regulatory Compliance Fee 2.10
Subtotal 77.07
Total Current Charges
77.07

Now look at the 2 bills. The actual service is the same, the rest of the increases are taxes (albeit not all at the same level). The state and county increases make up a portion, but the federal regulatory fee and reglatory compliance fee seem the biggest such increases. Am I paying more to the government here? Yup... The phone bill showed much the same. And yet I wonder how many people in general have actually looked at their bill closely enough to have noticed this, and how many people just thought the utility company simply increased prices here? Uncle Sam increased, they passed the incresed cost (to them) along to the consumer...

No, he doesn't. Thats the thing you see that defines a politician. Neither Kerry nor Bush has any integrity based on what they say. The Bush team has a better set of spinners so you tend to think he does not deviate from his position. This is blatantly untrue especially if you look @ his statements on any given subject over a period of weeks.

I think this would be a good time to mention Karl Rove. Rove (as Bush's political advisor), is a disgusting, nasty, vindictive individual (aka sending nasty and unsolicited job references so a person running against his candidate couldn't find work in the private sector for 3 years after the election), who I would say is an absolute amoralist... He's also a genious, albeit arguably a genious in a nepharious sense of the word. As despicable he is as a man, he certainly is a cunning political advisor, and shrewd at constructing a plan and then working an effective means to bring it into fruition... Unfortunately, for us as a nation that is, considering just who this man is, and what his scruples, or lack thereof are...

Passed tax cuts that gave millions of lower income Americans a better day by having to pay almost no tax, and lowered taxes for most of the rest of us. Now, I don't have a problem with paying taxes, but how about letting the American Citizen help boost the economy by spending his own money, vs. giving excess to the Govt and letting them spend it?

If the tax cuts coincided with decreases in overall government spending, that would be one thing. What we see however is a policy of tax cut and increased defecit spending. Heck, last November after the 2004 elections a bill went through Congress to increase the cap placed on deficit spending to $800 billion. Prior to then, they raided the government workers retirement fund to keep the government in operation, having considered it a bad idea to bring up this issue until after the election is done.

The money doesn't come from no where, and a day of reckoning could certainly come our way... It might not come in the next 4 years (the economics teacher I had last year argued that things might hold out till 2010, but then they'll have to raise taxes or something) to be of interest to the current administration, but we the people could well feel it...

Then again as perris mentioned, and as I noticed in my own utility bills, I have seen tax increases elsewhere, in less obvious places that I'm not sure the average consumer would tend to look...

 

[Perris Calderon]

The money doesn't come from no where, and a day of reckoning could certainly come our way

the day of reconing is already here...have you seen the thead about my dad's hip surgery?

everyone but the uber wealthy are going to be paying more then you can imagine for the free money Bush gave to his buddies that helped him to office...this is great.

the next financial fiasco will be the governments insurance guarnatees against retirement fund default which has also been raided and is bankrupt

and of course the "realigning of our military installations" is another method to raise taxes.

the government will save a little money, the local areas will be raising taxes to make up for the lost revenue

some people can't yet see the damage this man has done to this country, but the price we pay is already here...more to come

 

[Xie]

The Bush team has a better set of spinners so you tend to think he does not deviate from his position. This is blatantly untrue especially if you look @ his statements on any given subject over a period of weeks.

I had a great link before (will give a look for it) that actually showed this. Was a list with a quote saying one thing and then what he actually did with dates. Interesting to see how $ can make some do a 180 in no time at all (and this goes for most politicians, not just Bush).

*edit* - I'm not sure if this is the one I had before but it's rather close and along the same lines, seems like the original was longer. linky

 

[gonaads]

Hey, Bush is like anchovies. Ya either luv 'em or ya hate 'em.






I have no comment, but I hate anchovies.






It doesn't matter what the person does. It could be finding a cure for all the deseases in the world and people can still hate the person. It all depends on their character, the way they interact with others. You could heal all the sick and still you could rub people the wrong way and piss them off.

 

[Perris Calderon]

It doesn't matter what the person does. It could be finding a cure for all the deseases in the world and people can still hate the person. It all depends on their character, the way they interact with others. You could heal all the sick and still you could rub people the wrong way and piss them off.

those are people that haven't earned the the negative opinion that people have of them, that's a conflict of personality

then there are people that have done harm and have earned the negative sentiment they enjoy

in this case, it's what I believe the harm the man has done to America.

 

[Son Goku]

the day of reconing is already here...have you seen the thead about my dad's hip surgery?

Yeah, and come to think of it, my father has commented about some hospital bills he's received in recent years. He's 79 years old and living on both social security (also has Medicare) and his company pension plan... He had to have a heart operation last summer, with followups and has been largely at the mercy of the hospital trying to work out a payment plan...

My father, also a life long Republican isn't exactly happy with Bush right now (for a variety of reasons), though he rather not talk about it too much. He had a heart attack not that long ago, and the matter is a bit upsetting for him/he doesn't want to get too stressed out thinking about it...

everyone but the uber wealthy are going to be paying more then you can imagine for the free money Bush gave to his buddies that helped him to office...this is great.

Could be nothing, but another thought came to mind. The utility bills is something I can easily see (as the breakdown of the bill is provided). The base cost of service being the same, but the taxes/fees going up is obvious. Actually my cable also recently went up, I'd have to look at 2 bills (before and after) to see where the price increase was.

But what about prices at the pump? There is more involved here then just the base price of the oil itself... There's also a gasoline tax that is placed upon the gas... Looking at gasoline prices just over the past 1+ years. At the pump, before the increase last year I was looking at about $1.45 per gallon. At the height last year, I saw about $2.19 per gallon, which then fell to about $2.04 per gallon when it finally settled down and stabalized. This year, it peeked at $2.46 per gallon, and has fallen to about $2.29 per gallon now, where it's been sitting for awhile now...

Looking at these prices, we assume that it's petrollium prices, and essentially the oil companies/OPEC themself that is "to blame" for this inflation at the pump... My father had commented about a month ago that he didn't know what was going on, as when the price per barell was going down, gas prices were remaining up there. He was questioning what was going on/where the money was going.

So, how much of this increase (and increasing trend) in gasoline prices going to the oil companies (which incidently many in the current admin have a stake in)? How much of this increase represents a possible increase in the gasoline tax itself? Could we be seeing an increase in both? Where the breakdown is not on the pump, do we know this?

I had a great link before (will give a look for it) that actually showed this. Was a list with a quote saying one thing and then what he actually did with dates. Interesting to see how $ can make some do a 180 in no time at all (and this goes for most politicians, not just Bush).

That looks like a fairly extensive link. I'll take a look when I'm out of class and have more then a few moments here and there to browse. It's a network security class, and the students busy hacking each other, while waiting for the remaining drives to be constructed, so everyone can carry on with today's assignment :rofl

Speaking of which, anyone else heard about the parallel to the Terry Schiavo case? In Florida, keeping Schiavo on life support was considered a "culture of life", and yet an infant (who wasn't brain dead) in Texas was removed from life support against the parents wishes, by a bill that Bush himself signed into law when he was govenor...

There was a book published sometime back that innumerated many of Bush's statements as well. I'd have to check the book store again to get the name of the thing...

 

[falconguard]

isn't it funny that the culture of life is very loud about what life is...until you break the law, and then they tell you to kill it.

 

[Perris Calderon]

I had a great link before (will give a look for it) that actually showed this. Was a list with a quote saying one thing and then what he actually did with dates. Interesting to see how $ can make some do a 180 in no time at all (and this goes for most politicians, not just Bush).

I'll cut and paste from the link...nice source

let's see what people who think this administration has a stictch of integrety has to say;


1. Social Security Surplus

BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]

...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

[op ed by dealer=GIVE ME MY FRIGGIN MONEY BACK!![/op ed]

boy, that comparison should stand all by itself shouldn't it

2. Patient's Right to Sue

GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]

...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]

...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits ‘would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]

3. Tobacco Buyout

BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM... "They've got the quota system in place -- the allotment system -- and I don't think that needs to be changed." [President Bush, 5/04]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO QUOTAS "The administration is open to a buyout." [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]

4. North Korea

BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]

5. Abortion

BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]

...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]

6. OPEC

BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]

...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

7. Iraq Funding

BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... "We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]

...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

8. Condoleeza Rice Testimony

BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... "Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]

...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]

9. Science

BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

10. Ahmed Chalabi

BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]

...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE "U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

11. Department of Homeland Security

BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

12. Weapons of Mass Destruction

this next one almost everyone forgot

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

13. Free Trade

BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

14. Osama Bin Laden

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

15. The Environment

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

16. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

20. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

21. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

this one...how can anyone forgive him for this?

23. U.N. Resolution

BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]

...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

24. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict

BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]

25. Campaign Finance

BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]

...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]

26. 527s

Bush opposes restrictions on 527s: "I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising [in McCain Feingold], which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import." [President Bush, 3/27/02]

…Bush says 527s bad for system: "I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it…I think they're bad for the system. That's why I signed the bill, McCain-Feingold." [President Bush, 8/23/04]

27. Medical Records

Bush says medical records must remain private: "I believe that we must protect…the right of every American to have confidence that his or her personal medical records will remain private." [President Bush, 4/12/01]

…Bush says patients' histories are not confidntial: The Justice Department…asserts that patients "no longer possess a reasonable expectation that their histories will remain completely confidential." [BusinessWeek, 4/30/04]

28. Timelines For Dictators

Bush sets timeline for Saddam: "If Iraq does not accept the terms within a week of passage or fails to disclose required information within 30 days, the resolution authorizes 'all necessary means' to force compliance--in other words, a military attack." [LA Times, 10/3/02]

…Bush says he's against timelines: "I don't think you give timelines to dictators." [President Bush, 8/27/04]

29. The Great Lakes

Bush wants to divert great lakes: "Even though experts say 'diverting any water from the Great Lakes region sets a bad precedent' Bush 'said he wants to talk to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien about piping water to parched states in the west and southwest.'– [AP, 7/19/01]

Bush says he'll never divert Great Lakes: "We've got to use our resources wisely, like water. It starts with keeping the Great Lakes water in the Great Lakes Basin...My position is clear: We're never going to allow diversion of Great Lakes water." [President Bush, 8/16/04]

30. Winning The War On Terror

Bush claims he can win the war on terror: "One of the interesting things people ask me, now that we're asking questions, is, can you ever win the war on terror? Of course, you can." [President Bush, 4/13/04]

…Bush says war on terror is unwinnable: "I don't think you can win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/30/04]

…Bush says he will win the war on terror: "Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/31/04]


the wealthy owned consolidated media has people believing that this mans has some kind of integrety

 

[ThePatriot]

Sorry, I know the list took a lot of Democrat/Liberal manpower to produce, but we can pull that kind of crap out for any politician. Shall I go get the same list for Kerry? Clinton? We all know none are much better than the other.

One look at Kerry's Senate record convinces me we'd be in NO BETTER position with him at the helm, maybe even slightly worse off.

C'mon kids, wake up, the most poignant problem here is career politicians with agendas, the only difference is the party affiliation they have tatooed on their hiney. They all suck in some way or another!

 

[Perris Calderon]

first, I kind of think that list was a sinch to compile, since I have tons more then that and I didn't do anything to get my conflicts of statements

second, while it's true that some of those confilict of statements that are noted in the article are politics, some are not, some of those have brought damage beyond repair to this country

those are the conflicts of integrety that we challenge

please show me where kerry or clinton started war they guaranteed they wouldn't

show me where kerry or clinton took trillions of my dollars, said as a fact they wouldn't touch my money, then gave it to rich people anyway, then made belileve the system was bankrupt so they wouldn't have to give it back

got a link for something as damaging as that?

why don't people do something about this?...this is your investment, you and your parents worked all their lives for this, this is your health care...it's gone... now it belongs to rich people that will never ever use it...what excuse can there be for this?

show me where kerry or clinton guaranteed that they found weapons of mass destruction when they knew as a fact they didn't, then show me how they used the lie to start a war with no exit strategy what so ever

show me the time that a scientist provided equiptment and data which they said cannot be used as a weapon of mass destruction, and then show how either of kerry or clinton went ahead anyway and guaranteed that these were weapons using the very data that said they weren't weapons... and then show me how they used the lie to make up war...show me this

remember those "tubes of mass destruction"?...informed in no uncertain terms, NOT used for anything of wmd...he didn't care what he was told by his own aids, he lied to convince us the oposite

remember those "vans of mass destruction"...his own scientists full informed him, NOT what he wanted to say...he said the data anyway so he could make up his war

how about that "balsa wood drone of mass destruction"...that was the best one...the trype of line of site prop plane you give your nephew as a gift...held together with duct tape.....that one was really rich

show me the war, the death of inventing circumstance to begin unproved unprovoked war, show me diverting military away from the fight of terrorism, show me

in the comparison of conflicts of statements versus the damage that the conflict of statement caused, the differance is not party differance

and suppose either of those two did do things of this magnitude;

I would want them out of office regardless of party

however, those in the party of this president would like compare normal conflicts of statement versus clear and deliberate deception to start war and steal money

 

[ThePatriot]

please show me where kerry or clinton started war they guaranteed they wouldn't

however, those in the party of this president would like compare normal conflicts of statement versus clear and deliberate deception to start war and steal money

Ok, let's just use the war issue for now...since Bush seems to be the Dem/Liberal fall guy...and remember, you asked for it...

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998


"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998


"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of ! a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998


"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998


"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry ( D-MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998


"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the devel! opment of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), Dec. 16, 1998


"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999


"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL,) and others, December 5, 2001


"We begi n with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI), Sept. 19, 2002


"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), Sept. 27, 2002


"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV), Oct. 3, 2002


"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA), Oct. 9, 2002


"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and w! ill likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), Oct 10, 2002


"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), Oct! . 10, 2002


"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapon stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Oct 10, 2002


"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL), Dec. 8, 2002


"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly! grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation .. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA), Jan. 23. 2003



SO NOW THESE SAME DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, AND THAT HE TOOK US TO WAR UNNECESSARILY !

 

[Perris Calderon]

excuse me, but these people were using the "facts" that Bush supplied to make those statements

were these people told that the "facts" bush used to make his case for war he made up?

no...so what are you saying, if the president lies to me and I make a decision basing it on his lie, I have given him premission?

ummm...you are making the case against the president

the statements made before our intel informed us otherwise has nothing to do with the statements made after we found out the actual facts do they.

as you see, kerry voted to allow bush to use force, "if neccessary" to disarm, we see as a fact that the president knew it wasn't neccessary from his own data and the people that supplied him with the "intel" he converted to suit his own obsession

and let me tell you this, if they were told that bush was making up theses "facts, and they said those things anyway, then I would be calling them a liar and making sure everyone knew it as well

now it's your turn to say the same

 

[ThePatriot]

The facts, regardless of how good or bad they were, predated Bush's term. Look at some of the dates...1998, 1999...pre-Bush.

What I'm saying is, the war was IN NO WAY a personal vendetta carried out by Bush alone, unless your going to tell me he somehow influenced these Democrats before he took office, with "bogus" data nonetheless, somehow knowing he would be elected to office, and knowing he could then use the "bogus" data he somehow created to back up a personal war that has a Democratic stamp of approval back to at least 1998. Everyone was on the bandwagon until the going got tough, then they bailed, which by Kerry's record it business as ususal for him.

It just didn't go down the way you or the still reeling and still in denial Demo/Lib camp want it to have been.

 

[Mastershakes]

Please, just think of the estimated 150000 women and children in Iraq killed by US bombing campaigns from the 90s to today.

Who's violated UN resolutions now? Who cares who said what... who agreed, who didn't.

Just think of the children. Would you like it if we bombed out your kid's school? Put yourself in their shoes.

 

[fimchick]

Please, just think of the estimated 150000 women and children in Iraq killed by US bombing campaigns from the 90s to today.

Who's violated UN resolutions now? Who cares who said what... who agreed, who didn't.

Just think of the children. Would you like it if we bombed out your kid's school? Put yourself in their shoes.

WOW! 150,000 people killed by our bombings?? Woohoo, we must have dropped some NUCLEAR weapons on them, huh?

Fix your numbers. More like 1500 if that many.

 

[ThePatriot]

Please, just think of the estimated 150000 women and children in Iraq killed by US bombing campaigns from the 90s to today.

Who's violated UN resolutions now? Who cares who said what... who agreed, who didn't.

Just think of the children. Would you like it if we bombed out your kid's school? Put yourself in their shoes.

I feel for the Iraqi children immensly, even though I believe you numbers are waaaay inflated, as a matter of fact, I feel for all the Iraqi people having to put up with Saddam's rule for 3 decades. But DON'T try make us out as the bad guys...we aren't.

 

[Perris Calderon]

The facts, regardless of how good or bad they were, predated Bush's term. Look at some of the dates...1998, 1999...pre-Bush.

What I'm saying is, the war was IN NO WAY a personal vendetta carried out by Bush alone, unless your going to tell me he somehow influenced these Democrats before he took office, with "bogus" data nonetheless, somehow knowing he would be elected to office, and knowing he could then use the "bogus" data he somehow created to back up a personal war that has a Democratic stamp of approval back to at least 1998.

the facts tat predated Bush were ujpdated by Bush's own research..Bush changed the updated facts to suit his agenda

Everyone was on the bandwagon

nobody was on the bandwagon...people were responding to the lies of Bush

which by Kerry's record it business as ususal for him

kerry didn't bail, Bush failed his obligation to this country, deliberately changed data and witheld information

sorry theptriot, but the facts as they were at one time were updated by Bush research himself...he ignored the update, or rather, revised the information to suit his personal obsession

you want to use statements made by those people that used Bush lies as the base for their decisiosn...you can't do that..that makes the case against the lie it doesn't make the case for the lie

bush and rumsfeld were the only people that wanted to start the second front, powell, clarke, tennet, his generals were pretty dumbfounded that anyone wanted to dilute the force in afghanistan and take on Iraq

it seems pretty obvious this is a personal decision of his.

 

[Perris Calderon]

I feel for the Iraqi children immensly, even though I believe you numbers are waaaay inflated, as a matter of fact, I feel for all the Iraqi people having to put up with Saddam's rule for 3 decades. But DON'T try make us out as the bad guys...we aren't.

we are not the bad guys buy design of the intention of the American people, and I agree that if I were presented with the war in Iraq for humanitarian reasons I would have given my support

however, only if the people of the United States were informed.

for instance, Bush senior had my full support and appreciation

however, not as a second front, and to be sure, the fashion that rumsfeld has conducted this initiative is miserable...I hold him to account, but who to blame for leaiving him to his performance?

 

[ThePatriot]

The facts, regardless of how good or bad they were, predated Bush's term. Look at some of the dates...1998, 1999...pre-Bush.

What I'm saying is, the war was IN NO WAY a personal vendetta carried out by Bush alone, unless your going to tell me he somehow influenced these Democrats before he took office, with "bogus" data nonetheless, somehow knowing he would be elected to office, and knowing he could then use the "bogus" data he somehow created to back up a personal war that has a Democratic stamp of approval back to at least 1998.




nobody was on the bandwagon...people were responding to the lies of Bush

kerry didn't bail, Bush failed his obligation to this country, deliberately changed data and witheld information

sorry theptriot, but the facts as they were at one time were updated by Bush research himself...he ignored the update, or rather, revised the information to suit his personal obsession

you want to use statements made by those people that used Bush lies as the base for their decisiosn...you can't do that..that makes the case against the lie it doesn't make the case for the lie

bush and rumsfeld were the only people that wanted to start the second front, it seems pretty obvious this is a personal decision of his.

So what you are saying is all those people were duped, then duped again, and the checks and balances inherent of our form of Government were all circumvented in order to let George W Bush put on a personal war? No, I don't think so.