Automatic Software

Discussion in 'Windows Desktop Systems' started by dave holbon, Jun 1, 2003.

  1. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    It’s like genetic engineering before there were any genes apart from a few simple ones. What rules do they obey in order to construct (over time) a living being?

    These rules must be simple, universal (literally) and have a goal. This would seem to indicate that we live in an already pre-programmed universe, which of course is obvious as if everything was totally random nothing could yet be observed.

    Writing a set of rules in software (which could be considered to be the first genetic engineering step) on the way to creating something self-sustaining in any environment in which it finds itself, would seem to start here. For instance if you introduced a new type of data storage device using entwined particles how would your existing “intelligent” systems know firstly of it’s existence and secondly how to use it as there is no one to provide any interface?

    Evolution of most species on Earth has “programmed” sensors like eyes, smells, pressure wave detection (hearing) and a whole host of other sensors. These sensors are however very similar in nature mostly concerning vibrations of various frequency’s and airborne chemicals etc so the “code” required to build these sensors must have been simple in concept initially, re-writing itself (say using Darwin’s theories) when bugs turned out to be advantages. Is this how it was done? Is it a “Matrix” type operation where your brain if forced to expand to handle all the input and a “bug” decides the new order?

    A few simple line of code? But how? Where do you start? This is the next step in the understanding of writing the few lines of code that will itself build the next generations of machine intelligence as Turing predicted and they will (astonishingly) be able to evolve at a rate (once started) of about one billion time faster than we have.

    Someone please e-mail me the code! It’s out there somewhere already.
    :) :D
     
  2. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    Am I on my own here?
     
  3. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    took me time to follow along dave.

    started out too sophisticated for me feel compelled to continue

    anyway, I believe I have the jist of your post.

    what you are talking about is known (as far as the relationship to the design of computers), and the concept is called "second generation" design..

    simply put, a computer designed to design a computer better then itself, and so on

    and here we have evolution, in the true sense of the word.

    who is to say, in the end, the computer might come up with bio mecdhanisms, instead of mechanical mechanisms.

    and so, perhaps, we are one generation of machines that were conceived by other machines, and so on...however, in the beginning, the first machine to create the next was perhaps mechanical based in the first place, which later gave way to us
     
  4. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    No that’s not really what I’m on about. It’s about simplicity and the rules you need to know to (within just a few simple line of code) instate another life form.
    This must be possible or we would not be here.
     
  5. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    well, I have a philosophical problem with the idea of this.

    this would mean that everything is scientifically predictable, (already hypothesized by the way, but I forget by who).

    if this were true, then there would be no guilt, nothing great and nothing but what must be.

    I can't live with the idea that I might actually be forced into all that I have done, and will do
     
  6. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    I don’t believe this. It’s a loop you go around that unexpectedly branches out for no apparent reason (mutates) every now and then. If you have millions of these running at the sane time the model of life starts to make some sort of sense as it can act as a apparent intelligence or appear to, to an observer watching in a different time frame (say one hundred time faster) then this is the programme we need to look at to provide automatic programming.

    It also would provide by definition unknown variables that only itself could define.
    :) :)
     
  7. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    but, the branch and mutation should be predictable as well.

    for instance, let's look at a weather forcast.

    once apon a time, but for hour by hour, unpredictable.

    but now, as we learn to calculate the various variables, wheather becomes more and ever more predictable.

    i believe, weather could possibly be predictable months in advance.

    if we knew what caused solar flares, what asteroids in proximity will do to our orbit, etc...when all factors are known, future occurances will be known.

    if this is ever the more true, then there is no future, there is a definate future, which no one could change, and even the typing of these pros are part of the chemical and physical sequence that was set forth to start what we now call "time"
     
  8. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    Don’t mention time as it’s a man made-up measurement consisting of nothing but a perceived difference between something, it has no starting point and hence no ending point, it only confuses things (that’s started me of again). That’s what the thread “On what day does midnight fall” was all about but no one guessed, well nearly.

    This is not about adding complexity but stripping it all away and looking at what’s left. After removing just about everything that’s interaction based, what started the ball rolling? I only know one thing; it’s go to be so simple that no one has considered it yet.

    It’s like visualising in your minds eye an area of space in which nothing exists at all this could be definition of the smallest imaginable area and at the same time larger than all imagined or real universes. But one day someone does imagine and sees the area, it now exists, but why? Someone has moved.




    :) :) :) :)