ATi/AMD vs NVIDIA - the end?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by ray_gillespie, Nov 1, 2007.

?
  1. ATi will bounce back with some killer GPU next year and reverse the situation

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. ATi will come back with something good and balance out the market again

    10 vote(s)
    55.6%
  3. ATi will not be able to produce anything awesome and their market share will dwindle

    4 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. NVIDIA will keep going from strength to strength and will dominate the market in 2 years time

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
  5. NVIDIA have already won hands down. ATi graphics cards are history. NVIDIA are the king of GPUs!

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
  1. ray_gillespie

    ray_gillespie Moderator Staff Member Political User

    Messages:
    1,692
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    So with the release of the Geforce 8800GT and coming hot on the heels of comments on OSNN, I have a question for you all: Is this really the beginning of the end for ATi/AMD graphics cards?

    Surely this kind of thing happens time and time again, with one competitor trouncing the other for a while until the roles are eventually reversed? Or is this one trouncing too many for ATi?

    Bear in mind that the Intel Core 2 Duos are kicking the crap out of AMD's CPUs at the moment too, will AMD decide to back away from the graphics market to concentrate on CPUs?

    Reps for your opinion, people.
     
  2. lancer

    lancer There is no answer! Political User Folding Team

    Messages:
    3,093
    Location:
    FL, USA
    personally i would really agree with any of those statements.

    AMD once they have mastered smaller nm cpu's will again go head to head with intel. Which i imagine will be within the q1 of next yr.

    It just so happens they where behind the curve on this one.
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  3. LordOfLA

    LordOfLA Godlike!

    Messages:
    7,027
    Location:
    Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK
    cpu != GPU :)
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  4. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

    Messages:
    13,312
    Location:
    New York
    AMD ruined ATI. AMD's exit from the top of the line GPU market hurt. It could potentially ruin their core business, too. Instead of taking more on they should have concentrated on the CPU market.
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  5. American Zombie

    American Zombie Moderator Staff Member Political User

    Messages:
    2,931
    Location:
    Seattle
    Anyone remember what happened when it was Nvidia vs 3dfx?
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  6. Petros

    Petros Thief IV

    Messages:
    3,038
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Graphics accelerators were an emerging market, and it was pretty volatile; now everyone pretty much knows what to expect from their competitors. Short of a miraculous new technology, AMD is going to have a hard fight to get even close to the top of the heap.
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  7. Tuffgong4

    Tuffgong4 The Donger Need Food!!!! Political User

    Messages:
    2,465
    Location:
    Chicago
    we have to wait and see what RV670 has in store...but I'm not seeing a one company market anytime soon.
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  8. Shamus MacNoob

    Shamus MacNoob Moderator Political User

    Messages:
    4,199
    Location:
    L'Ile Perrot Quebec
    I love my 8800GTS

    nuff said .
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  9. zeke_mo

    zeke_mo (value not set) Staff Member Political User Folding Team

    Messages:
    1,984
    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    Ati will probably come out with something to beat the 8800 series a week before nvidia will be releasing their new card series, thats how it seems to happen
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  10. chastity

    chastity Moderator Political User

    Messages:
    2,273
    Location:
    Arizona near the Grand Canyon
    Well for the sake of driving innovation and making parts cheaper I hope AMD/ATi sticks around as it generally better for us as buyers.

    Now I don't AMD and ATi merger was a great idea since it doesn't seem AMD is making much in roads into mainboard market with inhouse chipsets.

    So yes this could be the end of ATi but lets hope not
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  11. epk

    epk Moderator Political User Folding Team

    Messages:
    1,241
    Location:
    Buenos Aires
    mm.. nah... i dont think so


    ati just needs to optimize its cards a little... i think the next gen its gonna be more balanced

    oh, but... omg they should make some decent drivers already!... 7.10 were pretty great, but otherwise... even when they got the hardware right (like x1k series) they lose on that


    i dont think they're gonna beat nvidia soon or the other way around.. but if they get to work is gonna be more head to head competition
     
    ray_gillespie likes this.
  12. Maveric169

    Maveric169 The Voices Talk to Me

    Messages:
    1,148
    Location:
    Elkhart, IN
    Well AMD/ATi cannot afford to lose in the graphics market or the processor market. When Intel bought Nvidia it was aimed at overloading AMD, and the fact that ATi was fighting hard to keep up to begin with didn't help matters. AMD simply doesn't have the money that Intel has for R&D and production. It is going to be a difficult road for AMD but it is a place they are used to being in. To really "catch up" they would need a substantial step forward, like a drop to 40nm. However, AMD/ATi will continue, they have to get back to the mentality that they really need their products to shine everytime out, and get back to their core of more work per clock cycle. Because in a game of "keeping up with the jones's" AMD will lose.
     
  13. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

    Messages:
    14,905
    Location:
    Between Austin and Tampa
    AMD is still selling a ton of graphics cards. Even if it is not at the high-end, the top of the line cards make up only a fraction of the market.

    OEM's sell low-mid range cards and AMD is doing just fine in this arena. Most of the losses incurred by AMD this past fiscal quarter were a result of price wars and lower sales on the processor front v/s last year.

    This is the first generation that AMD has "lost" since the R300 debuted for single chip boards. I would hardly call that a death-knell. Nvidia didn't exactly wither away when they were behind in raw performance for so long.

    ATi/AMD will be around in one form or another for a while because they would make an attractive take-over target either together or individually.
     
  14. zeke_mo

    zeke_mo (value not set) Staff Member Political User Folding Team

    Messages:
    1,984
    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    That never happened
     
  15. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

    Messages:
    14,905
    Location:
    Between Austin and Tampa
    Shhhhh... he's from the future :smoker:
     
  16. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

    Messages:
    5,291
    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    ATI is no longer pursuing the top end market. They and AMD have stolen a page from the Intel playbook. ATI has been deeply focused on the consumer electronics and integrated video market which allows Intel to own 85% of the video chip sales while having a crappy product.

    ATI has been focused on Entertertainment based gpus for 2 years now and has that market locked. If you want good multimedia you buy ATI instead of Nvidia (or Intel). ATI lost a massive amount of GPU share in the last twelve months. Nvidia has grown significantly with part taken from ATI and part by grabbing a major share of the new performance market VISTA's graphics hogginess is creating. ATI has been allocating significant die real estate and heat dissipation to multimedia and that is holding them back from dominance in performance.

    We can kiss ATI goodby as a contender for the demanding Video Gaming sector. Whether they and AMD survive at all will depend on if they can create a sustainable niche for themselves. The ATI - 3DFX comparison above is very appropriate, that includes AMD processors BTW.

    Both AMD and ATI are running 1-1.5 generations behind on power, die geometry and raw performance. Throw in a 50-50% chance of recession next year and survival is questionable let alone the additional development dollars to create killer new products.

    A frightening future with no price competition for Intel/Nvidia. The only reason I can see that Nvidia dropped a reasonably priced new GPU (8800GT) is the in process anti-trust litigation the government is pursuing.
     
  17. Tuffgong4

    Tuffgong4 The Donger Need Food!!!! Political User

    Messages:
    2,465
    Location:
    Chicago
    I think there will be 3 companies in the party if the rumor of an Intel based discrete card comes out.

    But really the leader in selling graphics chips is still intel. We follow what is the best and fastest and most expensive but walk into a best buy or fry's and watch the masses buy their 60 dollar Geforce 4 MX cards and you will see that the majority of people don't care. (Yes I was just in a fry's and saw people deciding on whether to buy an Ati 2400 or a geforce 4 mx)

    That's another reason PC gaming is slowing (not dead by any means) because regular joe from Regular City doesn't have the power to play games because he has integrated graphics.
     
  18. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

    Messages:
    14,905
    Location:
    Between Austin and Tampa
    Where do you come up with this stuff?

    :cool:
     
  19. lancer

    lancer There is no answer! Political User Folding Team

    Messages:
    3,093
    Location:
    FL, USA
    thinking the same thing. :lick:
     
  20. ray_gillespie

    ray_gillespie Moderator Staff Member Political User

    Messages:
    1,692
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Thanks for all the cool replies guys, they make interesting reading. I'm sure that the high level of competition in recent years has led to some awesome products at very fair prices, so as long as that continues I'm happy :)
     
    Shamus MacNoob likes this.