Argh!

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by MJS, Dec 2, 2003.

  1. MJS

    MJS Guest

    I was all for getting a new graphics card at xmas. Getting rid of the old GeForce 4 MX440 and slapping a new card in so that I can play every game at top details with high frames :p .

    I was totally fixed on getting a GeForce FX 5950ultra. I thought they looked good in the reviews and everything but then I start to see all the negative comments about Radeons being better and FX not being able to handle the new DX9 textures and all that crap.
    So I have considered getting a Radeon 9800XT. They are slightly more expensive, but are supposed to perform better. Then I find out that next year, ATI cards will be made to look crap because nvidia are bringing out a new NV40 chip which will make them much better.

    ARGH, all I wanted to get was the best graphics card that I can keep for about 21/2 years and it will run all the best games. But now im faced with this. What a bad time to upgrade the card for god sake :mad:.
    I will look like a right donkey if I upgrade to the best now, then in like 3 months, the new chip comes out and its 100x better, its not like you can trade in your graphics card like a game :(
     
  2. Petros

    Petros Thief IV

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    Don't worry about the next generation being too much better. Even the current crop of cards are pretty processor-limited.

    Maybe ATI cards will be outdone by NVidia's 2004 offerings, but don't forget that in 2003, before the FX 5800 came out, NVidia claimed they would have huge performance increases over the Radeon 9700 Pro, which turned out not to be the case, especially in the DX9 arena. It was nothing more than a marketing strategy. NVidia knew that their card wouldn't deliver what they had promised, but they had to do something to discourage ATI from producing more cards.

    The strategy (or more properly, marketing ruse) worked; ATI decided to declare defeat and concentrate on the next round without even seeing the competition. NVidia released a substandard card, and ATI couldn't produce the hardware consumers wanted after the huge disappointment.

    Even if you wait for an NV40, ATI is also releasing the 420 chipset next year, codenamed "Loki" for now, and we will see another video card arms race. This time, ATI won't fall for the same trick twice in a row. Maybe you should do some wait-and-see, or buy a 9800 XT at a much-reduced price when the new cards come out.
     
  3. MJS

    MJS Guest

    argh,

    Thats the problem. I have been so badly wanting to upgrade the card since about April, when I coudlnt run Vietcong very well on my card. Now I finally have the chance to upgrade and all this happens. There isn't much chance of my waiting till next year I don't think, it's gonna have to be now, either an FX5950 or a Radeon 9800XT :confused:
     
  4. Petros

    Petros Thief IV

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  5. MJS

    MJS Guest

    Well, I have come to my senses now, it looks like it's going to have to be a Radeon. I have read about 5 different benchmark/reviews comparing the FX5950ultra and the Radeon9800XT. The Radeon always wins, except for sometimes when there is no AA or AF enabled, but I always denied it and stuck with FX.

    I think it will be a last minute change of heart here.

    way hay for the big 'A' :p
     
  6. MJS

    MJS Guest

    I know that ATI handle the DX9 alot better than the FX cards do. But the FX cards are actually faster.

    I want to know something. Is it possible that nvidia could release a driver which makes DX9 run better on the FX card?, or is it something to do with the chip that can never be changed?

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. TheBlueRaja

    TheBlueRaja BR to Some

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    Come to the Dark Side of the Force MJS - you know you want to - you can feeel its power drawing you in.

    Ati IS your Father....

    :D

    Look mate - stop frettin - its like this, and this is an HONEST answer, get an ATi card - THEN if you dont like it within the two weeks send it back and swap it for an NVidia card.

    I bet that you keep it.

    NVidia DID release a DX9 driver - its the 50.X series of drivers and, well, it sucks by comparision as you see in those reviews.

    At the moment and probably for the next 6 months ATi is God - what happens after that - nobody knows - there are ALWAYS new cards just about to come out. If you want a new card get whatever is better at the time whether it be ATI or Nvidia - anyone who sticks with a brand out of loyalty is a fool, but only you can decide when the time is right.
     
  8. MJS

    MJS Guest

    Yes, well, i appreciate the views and I am going to order the card in about 10 mins and considering its great DX9 compatibility, the Radeon is bound to outlast hte FX5950, when the 'new gen' cards are out, the 9800XT will still play the DX9 games better than the FX5950... which is what this is all about, Radeon 9800XT and FX5950 and i just now looked at some screenies showing the picture quality from the radeon cards compared to the FX cards and its definately better on the Radeon.

    Well, I have given Nvidia a chance with the MX440 and its done its job, I had a built in ATI RageII on my old PC, so I think I will have to go with ATI on this one.

    Thats gotta be totally final this time :)
     
  9. MJS

    MJS Guest

    OK,

    I know I have said that I will get an ATI card definately, but I want to know, is it likely that nvidia will release a driver that makes the FX5950 work as good with DX9 as the Radeon9800XT?

    If so, I mean, if both cards ended up 100% DX9 compatible, would the FX5950 be faster because of its larger memory bandwidth?

    :confused:
     
  10. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    It has to be more than your typical driver. There has been talk of Nvidia writing a DX9 "driver" (not the right word) that will more efficiently use its hardware design to run the DX9 function calls.

    This is going to be an expensive piece of software to develop! And it's probably the reason Half Life has been delayed for 9 months. The rumor mill says they have to totally rewrite their rendering engine to support the nvidia cards or performance would have been unacceptable.

    This kind of split has happened before. You used to have to actually install different versions of a game depending on which video accelerator card you had. Standards like DX9 are supposed to make that problem vanish forever but it's not working out that way.

    Take Homeworld 2. It is finicky on Radeons but runs great on nvidia. They used OpenGl instead of DX9 for the graphics.

    So the question becomes do you trust Nvidia to spend the bucks to write a major DX9 mod or will their next chipset be more DX9 compatible and screw the owners of older cards? A risky question to spend $300-400 on.

    You decide.
     
  11. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    raw dx9 performance cannot be improved on the FX processors.. it is a design compromise (I prefer to call it a flaw) and it cannot be fixed without a redesign..

    the nv40 will have transistors to specifically address the issues that exist in the current design and will likely have a boost in number of pipelines (either physical or by way of the array setup they employ currently)... how many processing units each pipeline will have is still up in the air per the grapevine... either 1 or 2...

    if there are 2... expect a massive card with a ton of transistors... perhaps utlising low-k dielectric process as well as an artifically larger heatspreader on the gpu to aid in dissipation...

    a 9700pro has been in my system since the month it was released over a year ago... and I don't regret buying it one bit... :)

    personally though... I think its better for you to wait for a highend pci-eX card next year with a new rig rather than getting one right now... if you are looking to splash out on a new product..

    volari should be out this month as well :) should make the marketplace interesting again...
     
  12. MJS

    MJS Guest

    I have decided to trust nvidia this time, also, the card is being brought for me and the 9800XT is too expensive, so I will get the FX5950 (the 9800XT is the only card that is somewhat faster than the FX5950).... I do tend to play more OpenGL games anyway, so it shouldnt be a bad choice.

    :)

    And I realise that the new chipsets will be out next year, but they will most probably be more expensive and at the moment, I can't wait any longer to get my card, I have been waiting long enough and it was decided that I would get it for christmas :confused:
     
  13. MJS

    MJS Guest

    LOL.

    In that short amount of time, I changed my mind and I have ordered a Sapphire ATI Radeon 9800XT. I simply couldn't choose an FX5950 after seeing all the benchmarks that ATI wins in about 9/10 of and the image quality compared to the FX5950 is quite alot more, so, I thought I would try ATI this time, as I have an Nvidia now, I might aswell give ATI a try

    Thanks for all the opinions and I will post (hopefully) how happy I am with it, on xmas day

    :cool: