Amd+ Ati= ?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by iceman7311, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. iceman7311

    iceman7311 OSNN Senior Addict

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    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~110899,00.html

    you all seem to be good at predicting what will happen. so what do you all think this will do to the computer market?




    edit: my prediction is we will start to see really cheap motherboads with ati chipsets for the amd's. intel's crossfire motherboards will getreall crappy if they don't just stop making them. we will see sometype of a cpu/ gpu hybrid on the motherboad without a ad in card. i would think the next logical move would be for nvidia and intel to start "playing nice". and posible a merging there. this seems to be an exciting time for the computer market.






    edit2: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33225
    no more ati chipset for intel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2006
  2. Aprox

    Aprox Moderator Political User

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    AMD, ATI and Google will team up and take over the world.
     
  3. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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    I hope such a merger doesn't keep ATI from manufacturing products for Intel. In NVIDIA's case it always seems that newer products are designed for AMD chipsets. I hope this doesn't mean ATI will follow suit.
     
  4. Aprox

    Aprox Moderator Political User

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    As it was asked in the new post, what will happen between Nvidia and AMD now. It will be interesting to see how all the companies relationships change over the next few months. I hope this doesnt lead to two seperate camps with propietary setups for either side.
     
  5. ShepsCrook

    ShepsCrook Red Sox Fan!

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    amd + ati = amdati duh....

    Just kidding. It probably means that ATI might nab some of the chip fabrication methods of AMD and make some smaller more powerful processors.
    But who knows. Everyone is wondering about this.
     
  6. Kr0m

    Kr0m Moderator

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    WTF?

    Prediction: WTF?
     
  7. sindustrial777

    sindustrial777 OSNN Addict

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    Great news for amd + ATI user like myself, I feel as though I may wee myself with exictment :) :) :) :lick:
     
  8. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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    Yeah, yeah. Happy Birthday to you.
     
  9. Aprox

    Aprox Moderator Political User

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    I just looked at AMD's stock, and it dropped 5% today. That seems really odd, but I am not finacial expert, is this an expected reaction in the market?
     
  10. Shamus MacNoob

    Shamus MacNoob Moderator Political User

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    I think this is a good move and should give a good stable ground for both ATI/AMD to keep growing.
     
  11. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    ATI has been the in crapper financially, but then so has nvidia. Remember that the largest video chipset manufacturer in the world is Intel.

    -ATI can't make a low power GPU.
    -They don't make their own video cards anymore (sapphire makes them).
    -Their current line GPU temps are horrid (95C vs nvidia 65C) if Tom's is to be beleived.
    -Their exchange policy is borderline criminal.
    -They have no mid range product line (too expensive, too slow) and low end cards won't run current games.
    -Crossfire is non existant. Try buying a master card to go with the ati card you bought last year like they promised you could. There aren't any.
    -They appear to be going after the home media market and loosing interest in the PC add on card.
    -Their home media product is over priced and chock full of DRM.
    -ATI had SB chipset issues and was depending on ULI who Nvidia acquired a few months back.

    Lee's prediction -
    this is a strategic alliance out of the current weakness on the part of ATI and AMD (has lot the lead to core duo). DAMDIT (as I like to think of this acquisition) is going to target the home entertainment market hoping to get sufficient volume to build the financial base needed to fight Intel and Nvidia. The PC line will be media (not performance) heavy and build on integated MBs just like Intel is making a killing at. AMD is trying to re-enter the MB chipset market that it left in humiliation.

    Unfortunately, DAMDIT is blind. The media market is consumer electronics and has eaten the lunch of other wannabe's like MS (loosing 100'S of millions a year). And they are just too far behind Intel to develop the massive silicon foundry technology "chipzilla" can swing.

    Intel does not need to buy nvidia and probably won't even consider it due to antitrust regulations since they already have 85% of the market.

    Long term outcome-
    -Intel will stay Intel.
    -Nvidia will end up the only high end video card maker.
    -AMD will continue to eek out an existance and occasionally might beat Intel with a product but mainly because Intel doesn't want to be hit with an anti trust lawsuit like MS was.

    And to us, the enthusiasts?
    -High end video card prices will stay at their unacceptable current $500-800 price range and probably hit $1000.
    -Market competition will continue to dwindle (ULI, Voodoo, SIS).
    -We better learn to like game consoles or find new hobbies.

    The future is in portable computing and servers. Laptops for now, but in a few years the wireless kybd/monitor projection set with a PDA sized computer you set on a desk and type on the virtual keyboard. Bulk storage will all be online with google or yahoo type storages and portable email.

    DRM will kill the desktop as we know it.

    And this thought just for Perris. The governemnt will have total access to all those files and store every keystroke you make.:dead:
     
  12. iceman7311

    iceman7311 OSNN Senior Addict

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    as i recall ati went up about 18% but i am not sure on that.




    lee dangit i was excited about this, now i feel depressed:(
     
  13. Shamus MacNoob

    Shamus MacNoob Moderator Political User

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    Only time will tell what happens now.
     
  14. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I have to respond to a couple of posts in this thread, I'll start with this one.
    This is incorrect. Both nvidia and ati have turned their fortunes around, especially nvidia and are profitable. They are both making money and increasing revenue.

    Incorrect, ati does make low power gpu's, just not on the d'top scene at the moment. They have discreet mobile solutions that are low power'd. Also, keep in mind that max power draw is not that different.

    So what? When was the last time Nvidia made their own cards? It is not financially sound for them to do this when board makers like sapphire can do so.

    Again, this is a moot point. The cards are not blowing up and within their tollerances.

    I personally have had no issues, though I understand you did.

    They have good mid-range products. The 1800 series is their mid-range dood and they are plenty fast enough. Their low-end cards are about as fast as nvidia's solutions and a hell of a lot better than intel's solutions.

    Channel supply is bad for cross-fire apparently but I have seen them offered on various web vendors like newegg so I am not sure where the rumours are coming from.

    Apparently you have not heard of the r600 with unified shader tech coming to the market soon. You don't drop big dollars on r&d like that if you are moving away from the add-on market.

    ? Are you talking about the tv tuners? Because frankly speaking, I haven't had many issues with their products in comparison to others out there.

    As is, DRM is not something that is proprietary to ATi, it is an industry-wide happening and you will see it being more and more prevalent as vista and other items come forth.

    Dunno bout this, no comment.

    A few things, there is no indication of what will happen. These companies do what is necessary for their bottom-line and market share. AMD has k8l being introduced and ati has good market share in various segments. Also, AMD is not losing share to Core 2 tech based procs in the consumer space.

    Your speculation may be accurate for the integrated mb components but AMD left the mb space because it was simply not cost effective for them. Remember they were re-structuring when they first moved out of the market.

    Where are you getting your information from?

    First, m$ can afford to seed the market at a loss because it knows in the future, if the seeding works, it will get big bucks back.

    AMD has good R&D and has mapped out its future pretty well. Understand that AMD has a few fabs and one or two new facilities upcoming.

    They are hardly dead in the water and have had good quarter on quarter growth for a while.

    Intel is not on the strongest footing itself. It is restructuring internally. Have you read the same reports I have? The lay-offs et al?

    They have more money than AMD, better fabs and some good design teams. They also have good tech being developed off of the core 2 platform so expect them to be around for a while.

    What? AMD battered Intel with its k8 marchitecture because Intel didn't want to be hit with an anti-trust lawsuit?

    And ATi is bowing out of the high-end graphics market? Why? That's completely illogical.

    The other ihv's suck. They have niche markets. High end cards are at the prices they are at because consumers are willing to pay that much. Pure and simple market dynamics. Why reduce the cost when you can make that much?

    Further, there is nothing wrong with consoles. I got into gaming BECAUSE of consoles like atari and the commodore.

    Thats one probable direction.
     
  15. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I didn't understand AMD's decision primarily because of its precarious financial positioning on the whole. It has a lot of expensive/long term investments and a LOT of money tied up.

    It's like Dell acquiring Alienware, the first question people would ask is WHY? It's illogical.

    That's probably why amd's stock dropped. Am sure it also is tied to the impending release of core 2 as well :D
     
  16. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    ice welcome to my world. i'm always depressed...

    The ati stock went up to signify they were getting a deal. the amd dropped indicating most analysts don't see much value added for amd.

    I would be an intel buyer except that the pc desktop is headed into recession. nvidia stock is just too weak to even think about buying any.

    i'm really wondering where the whole performance desktop is headed. the gpu is just getting too expensive compared to the rest of the hardware. and if you add in the cost of a physics processor too...

    maybe consoles aren't that bad after all.
     
  17. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    sazar

    ati's financials are eps -2 cents, pe multiple infinite. that is a company on the verge of bankruptcy.

    nvidia is doing ok with a pe of 22, high, but not bad for a tech company. and their r&d is being grown nicely which bodes well for new products.

    amd is on thin ice. their net value is ~3.3 billion subtract out inventory 0.4 bil and plant at 2.7 bil and they do not have any appreciable cash to buy ati. plant and inventory are worthless in a downturn. they just spent a few years loosing ~3 billion during the last recession and have not had time to build their cash reserves up again. besides if Intel product is looking good to someone (me) who hasn't bought an intel cpu since 1987 that's bad news for AMD. and yes AMD ruled for 2 years, but they had 2 bad years before that when they hit their clock speed plateau. They are too small to eat the business fluctuations. Especially after an acquisition like this. The intentional churning of socket types is another bad indicator. It is a trick to drive demand. With the lack of performance boost to date with ddr2 it may backfire on them.
     
  18. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Really?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=ATYT

    Looking at those numbers and comparing this to the Ati pre-R300, the company is still engaged in relatively healthy growth even in the face of competition from Nvidia. You were saying earlier nvidia is financially weak but check this out.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=NVDA

    There is also growth there and nvidia has typically been profitable.

    Both companies cash reserves outweigh debt (in nvidia's case, there is no debt).

    Given the financial indicators on both those companies, it doesn't look like they are doing that badly given the market outlook.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=AMD

    I dunno, those numbers are still relatively healthier than what you are saying. AMD has almost 2.6 billion in cash reserves m8. That is not a bad number considering where they were a few years ago. Orton has turned the company around.

    What worries me most about AMD is their debt but it is not unmanageable. This is my singular concern with the company (besides it's inability to meet demand on occasion).

    AMD has a lot of other interests that it has involved itself in so that it is not primarily reliant on procs.

    Socket type churning is not an AMD phenomenon. You realize that essentially anyone going to core2 will need a new chipset right? DDR2 offers a slew of benefits not directly related to performance boosts (latency is higher than ddr). You get higher bandwidth and lower voltages. Lower volts == lowered temps and cost of manufacturing is a little lower.

    You raise good points but in light of the evidence to the contrary on many of them, I have to call them them into question.