A fact?

Discussion in 'Green Room' started by dave holbon, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    Being an old cynic I’ve always believed that what you can’t prove is always more important that what you can as in the end what you can prove has the habit of reverting to what you can’t, if enough time is allowed to pass.

    I believe in all conspiracy theories until proven incorrect and as the passing of time usually serves only to “broaden” theses various theories as they as mostly based on “faith” and only some facts, the likelihood of the “facts” beating the “conspiracies” must therefore diminish with time as some facts are inevitable lost or re-interpreted as in the Kennedy case.

    I believe that the beginning of the end of what used to be the Internet (where everyone had equal access to both information and services) is quickly arriving in a place near you soon and is being hijacked to favour both the large Corporate’s and the generation of huge revenue’s for the few, against the interest of the many. Of course this is only a “conspiracy theory” but changes made by service pack two and media player ten which were implemented solely by pressure from large organisations on the grounds of loss of revenue alone, are the first steps taken down this slippery slope that have been implemented by third party’s to remain “in favour” so to speak.

    Of course the threat of terrorist use of the internet to communicate with each other, pornography (which was the original driving force as it was with video recorders) has given leverage to various groups in their attempt to control what you can see, do or have access to. Like prohibition this of course does not work, a way round it is always found.

    At the end of the day a fact is only a theory no one can yet understand properly.
     
  2. gonaads

    gonaads Beware the G-Man Political User Folding Team

    But even when the facts are layed out, there are always theories as to the factuality of these said facts. So with that, facts are theories and theories are fact. As for time... time erodes all fact into footnotes and flashbacks of memory, all theories into footnotes and flashbacks of memory. So again, facts are theories and theories are fact. But the fact is, this is just a theory. :D
     
  3. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    You cannot trust memorys .. your mind will warp them. ;)
     
  4. Jewelzz

    Jewelzz OSNN Godlike Veteran

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    :wacko:
     
  5. VenomXt

    VenomXt Blame me for the RAZR's Folding Team

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    (bangs head on desk)
     
  6. xsivforce

    xsivforce Prodigal Son Folding Team

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  7. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    Wacko backwards with the “w” turned upside down (m) and the “k” interchanged to a “c” is the secret word “Occam” meaning Occams razor: -

    Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the mediaeval philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham). The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.

    All things come to pass.

    :) :) :)
     
  8. xsivforce

    xsivforce Prodigal Son Folding Team

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    *flies black helecopter over dave's house*
     
  9. Jewelzz

    Jewelzz OSNN Godlike Veteran

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    Kinda like gas, eh?
     
  10. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    I was thinking more in terms of not “gas” which I take as it was meant, but the understanding of a simple question, that being: on what day does midnight fall. This is not an easy question to answer as midnight is only a theory and not a fact as everyone presumes.

    :D
     
  11. melon

    melon MS-DOS 2.0 Political User

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    Sounds like a combination of nihilism and postmodernism here. As for your application of "theory" and "fact," I would deem it a bit inappropriate usage of the terms. What you should probably say is that all "Truths" are subjective and that "objectivity" is an illusion. Thus, it is true: "midnight" solely exists in one's mind and that statement is a combination of nihilism and postmodernism.

    You make some interesting philosophical statements, but I think they just need to be more refined to make sense. :p

    Melon
     
  12. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    And if you move the "n" in Santa to the end you get Satan. :p
     
  13. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    Your concept of non-belief is, I suspect a miss-represented view of a set of ideals commonly held in the last century that have nothing to do with the subject in hand.

    The postulation that midnight (the term) solely exists in ones mind is or course incorrect as 99% of the population of the western hemisphere will testify, as to them it’s a fact.

    My posts are not idealistic statements, merely madness explained, which I think is the exact opposite. However I take your point regarding “theory” and “facts” as far as they are concerned. It might be worth mentioning at this stage that people have been “hung” or otherwise disposed of using this criteria recently.

    Refining, what in effect is the difference between right and wrong is a difficult subject and is of course orientated by your religious views, up-brining and education, no one ever ends up at the same place and time in this respect.

    An interesting post though, made me think for a bit.


    :) :) :) :)
     
  14. bush dogg

    bush dogg OSNN Senior Addict Political User

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    Oh man nap time now, That gave me a headache :D
     
  15. xsivforce

    xsivforce Prodigal Son Folding Team

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    I can tie my own shoes.
     
  16. damnyank

    damnyank I WILL NOT FORGET 911

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    No Dave - I will not explain which day midnight falls on again to you!!:p
     
  17. melon

    melon MS-DOS 2.0 Political User

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    Even the whole concept of "time" is a human construction. Of course, 99%+ of the population will testify it to being a fact, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a subjective construction, and, thus, doesn't exist. Or, at least, that's what the nihilists would say. I don't go that far. ;)

    Well, no one ever said that "justice" was based on rationality and objectivity, necessarily; and nor should the fact that everything is "subjective" cause a halt to civilization as we know it. "Objectivity," nonetheless, is an idealistic, but practically impossible goal.

    "Right and wrong" are subjective concepts, although most of us can generally agree on certain ethics, whether one is an atheist or a Biblical fundamentalist. I tend to base my ethics on secular humanist philosophy, as I think it generally outlines universal ethical codes for pluralist societies. Of course, nothing is perfect.

    I try my best. ;)

    Melon
     
  18. Tabula Rasa

    Tabula Rasa Stranger Than Kindness Political User

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    Being an old cynic you should know the "conspiracy theories" are nothing but absurd.
    The word theory in that phrase can mean nothing but "An assumption based on limited information or knowledge" - The atempt to establish a fact by exploiting a lack of facts.
     
  19. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    True .. time doesn't exist .. motion as well. :)
     
  20. Lee

    Lee OSNN Proxy

    Midnight does not fall at 12.a.m. it is midnight after this it is morning. At 12.p.m it is the end of the morning and the start of the afternoon. Rain falls.