3200+ the highest they're going with 32bit?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by dubstar, Jan 24, 2004.

  1. dubstar

    dubstar format c:

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    i havent seen any 3400+ 32bit processors anywhere.. just wondering if they're focusing more on the 64bit, or cutting out the 32bit side.

    also, whats up with them stopping at 2.2ghz? yeah we can overclock, but damn, if i were some joe schmoe, i would think that AMD is retarded for only having a 2.2 when Intel has a 3.2
     
  2. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    Dub

    AMD is pretty much topped out at 3200XP (~2 gig clocks) with their complex instruction set and the 0.13 micron all silicon process they use. Toms Hardware tried cooling the chips (pentium and athlon) down with liquid nitrogen and they just won't go much beyond where they are right now. The Intel chips made it to 5 gig using liquid nitrogen cooling so they still have room for growth up to 4 gig, maybe more, before they top out. That was the bad news for AMD.

    Now the good news (sorta).
    Intels next generation of chips still use a silicon on silicon dioxide process and their next gen chips even at 90 micron glow red from heat. They appear to have F'd up. AMD on the other hand is using silicon on insulator for their next generation chips with a 90 micron process. That should break through the speed and heat wall they have run into.

    Why sorta? AMD may choose to not build Athlon XP chips in the new process leaving those who bought late model MB/CPU's dead ended. AMD's growth plan is in the 64 bit market and that is where their focus is. By doubling the data path you can get 50% or more throughput increase without upping the clock speed. Assuming M$ ever gets the operating system and compilers running.

    The other speed increase path is hyperthreading and multiprocessor which both Intel and AMD are developing using different approaches.

    Increasing clock speeds is probably not going to be the way things go from now on. At the CPU clock speeds now I/O and memory have become a big bottleneck. You can't move data off the chip at 3 gig when the FSB and RAM is only 400 meg. The capacitance in the CPU sockets, and MB traces degrades the data too much. SO you either go to parallel processing or put more stuff (memory manager like in the Athlon 64, bigger caches of RAM liek BARTON and Intel EX, the south and north bridge, etc) on the CPU chip. That makes the die bigger, and the bigger the die, the lower the yields and the higher the costs. Not a good approach.
     
  3. thebear

    thebear d(-.-)b

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    wow LeeJend, you know your sh!t ;)
     
  4. dubstar

    dubstar format c:

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    fact & commentary.. you rock LeeJend! thanks.
     
  5. Maveric169

    Maveric169 The Voices Talk to Me

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    Excellent post as always LeeJend.

    The really sad thing is, it that both AMD and Intel have both known that these problems would arrive, and have know that for a few years. The real problem is that mobo manuf. seam to have become deaf to these limitations. In the past it was always the CPU manuf. that set the limitations on speed, and what interface types would be supported. But now the burden of speed and reliability has shifted to the mobo and memory manuf. Mobo and memory manuf. have really in a way just sorta played a tag-a-long roll, producing mobo's and memory using exisiting processes with the only real development areas in the features available on board.

    That needs to come to an end if the computing industy is going really go anywhere in the near future. New processes and technology need to be developed in the mainstream of the industry, not just a handfull of people. The next big breakthrough I think is going to end up being micro-fiber optics.

    This is an old technology that could really play a huge roll in the mobo industry. Imagine using micro-fiber optic's instead of copper traces to move data from circuit to circuit. The development of a micro-fiber optic BUS would be a unimaginable throuput breakthrough.

    The exciting part is that the technology has (in a way) already been developed. There was an article (can't remember where I read it) where someone developed a CPU using micro-fiber optics. What we need to see is that type of innovative thinking taking place across the entire spectrum of the IT world.
     
  6. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    Well the good news seems to be that AMD has always known that there would be a top mhz/ghz speed so they have been making processors that do more per clock cycle and thus the 3200+, 3400+ and ect. ... slower "hertz" processors that are "equal" to there faster Intel compitition that beat them on faster speeds then design really (not taking into account the new HT technology Intel is now using in p4's of course). </endpretendingtobecpusmart>
     
  7. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    going to 64 bits boys

    leejend, that's a great read you put up there...thanx
     
  8. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    oops forgot to say nice post about LeeJend
     
  9. dubstar

    dubstar format c:

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    so when does the 64bit WinXP come out? or do we have to wait for a dual Longhorn & XP 64 to be released. not like i care really.. i wont have money for a cpu upgrade for 18 years.
     
  10. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    Awesome posts LeeJend, and Maveric169 :)
     
  11. blinden

    blinden OSNN Senior Addict

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    I don't forsee a quantum leap of perforamce comming from this 64 bit processing. It will more then likely just go along with moore, no more, no less... It's good though, that it will open the door for the future...

    btw, why is this in the 'lounge'? clearly a quality hardware thread.
     
  12. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    hmm... 1st of all good question why the lounge? I think we shall see more from 64bit processing when we have both hardware and software optomized for it ... but how much more is still just a guess @ this point really ...
     
  13. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    well ok people... since you want it moved... I will move it for you to 'other hardware' :)

    -edit-

    basically leejend and maverick have covered most of the points...

    the fact is that amd can actually go higher than they have with the athlonxp line...

    the problem is that beyond a certain point the efforts needed to get a good enough yield to be considered marketable is difficult...

    were amd to have implemented an SOI setup on their socket A solutions more could possibly have been achieved...

    however their athlon64 solutions are quite excellent...

    just from first hand experience my current cpu is noticeably faster than my p4... even with its HT enabled...

    quite something :)

    amd returned a profit in the previous quarter of business mainly due to the aggresive push to get people to purchase and use their 64 bit solutions... the new processors wth their on-die memory controllers and large cache are quite adequate for 32bit applications and are future-proof to an extent...

    amd should be able to push clock speeds higher once they move to a smaller process and seeing how well the athlon64/FX lineup performs with a ramped up clock speed.. this should send a clear message to intel to get their act together...