So Macs DO Crash...

**Sazar** · October 9th, 2007

Who woulda thunk it

Certainly not me, after watching the "clever" (read condascending, obnoxious, inaccurate and mis-leading) ads.

A growing number of users have reported that Apple's aluminum all-in-one computers suffer from a flaw that locks up the interface, rendering the system all but inert until a reboot.

Customers participating in Apple's official support discussions (one, two) have reported that the new iMac will technically continue to run when the freeze occurs, but that it becomes impossible to control or switch to programs without a hard reset.

"Whatever was going on at the time continues, so if you were listening to music it continues to play," one user wrote. "The mouse pointer moves but you cannot select anything. Tabbing through apps doesn't work."

Significantly, some can still control basic functions from the keyboard, such as pausing music or activating the Caps Lock key.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ng_issues.html

**X-Istence** · October 9th, 2007

Rev. A products from Apple are not products I want to buy. I waited to buy my MacBook Pro for a reason, I waited to get an iBook for that reason. Stuff always seems to not work as smooth as expected with the first releases.

And no **** Macs crash, it was programmed by humans, and ATI drivers for almost any platform blows balls. Nvidia has always released drivers that are quality.

**Sazar** · October 9th, 2007

Roffle cakes

Nvidia drivers crash and have just as many issues as AMD drivers do, if not more. Especially when it comes to the Vista platform. 3 odd years ago, Ati drivers were pants for stability.

Further, this issue affects the platform, remember what the ads say m8

It's about the entire thing "just working".

There is significant quality control and various controls over the products and their parameters before they go into the chassis.

Anyways, if there are problems, don't claim your **** don't stink and continue as if everything is perfect.

**Electronic Punk** · October 9th, 2007

They should just press ctrl alt del ;p

**lancer** · October 9th, 2007

doesn't intel now provide the cpu's?

**falconguard** · October 9th, 2007

Apple +Q,Apple +Q,Apple +Q,Apple +Q

oh wait...

**Xie** · October 9th, 2007

The issue appears to be related to the ATI Radeon HD graphics hardware and its drivers, but has proven unpredictable.

Driver problem, not an Apples/Macs "flaw". This would happen with any OS you ran an unstable video driver on. Ok I guess Windows would just BSOD and auto-reboot for you if you had XP and hadn't disabled that super silly default setting.

**Sazar** · October 9th, 2007

It's an all-in-one device amigo

The issue is with the entire product crashing, something which allegedly NEVER happens on Mac's.

And as I mentioned, Apple has a hell of a lot more control over what products are compatible with it's "solution" and can be used. They have FAR fewer products/vendors/drivers to worry about than other solution providers.

Fwiw, my Vista based system has only been unresponsive 1 time and that too BEFORE entering the windows platform (i.e. while booting but before entering the OS itself)

**Xie** · October 9th, 2007

Originally Posted by Sazar

The issue is with the entire product crashing, something which allegedly NEVER happens on Mac's.

Sounded more like a "lockup" (drivers hogging 100% CPU) then a "crash" (which would be a kernel panic in Mac land). Apple may have ALOT of control over the platform but they still don't write the drivers for the video cards. I will admit that none of the systems shipped should have any drivers included that were anywhere near unstable though.

As for it never happening, thats a fantasy. Just happens FAR less on a Mac compared to a Windows machine (I own both). I've never had a kernel panic (knock on wood) .. and only a few BSOD (usually after installing a new driver or doing something dumb).

**muzikool** · October 9th, 2007

Why would Apple advertise that sometimes its computers freeze up or have kernel panics? Why would Bose advertise that it sells the best-sounding speakers for people that don't really know how good speakers should sound? Why would Dish Network advertise its Dual-Tuner DVR as a DVR that can record two shows at once, but not two HD shows at once?

Marketing is marketing and it's just hype, not truth. I don't think it's right or ethical, but it's the way it is and I try to be educated enough to not drink the proverbial kool-aid.

**Sazar** · October 10th, 2007

Originally Posted by Xie

Sounded more like a "lockup" (drivers hogging 100% CPU)

I would call anything that forces me to reset my system due to being unresponsive a crash. And I don't really consider being able to turn my caps lock on and move my mouse pointer around to be responsive

Also, keep in mind that not all the users are able to move the pointer around, and only a few have been able to "use" the caps lock key.

then a "crash" (which would be a kernel panic in Mac land). Apple may have ALOT of control over the platform but they still don't write the drivers for the video cards. I will admit that none of the systems shipped should have any drivers included that were anywhere near unstable though.

Windows has their WHQL standard, Apple has their own testing program and it has to pass validation on far fewer levels than Microsofts simply because of the nature of the market.

As for it never happening, thats a fantasy. Just happens FAR less on a Mac compared to a Windows machine (I own both). I've never had a kernel panic (knock on wood) .. and only a few BSOD (usually after installing a new driver or doing something dumb).

And this goes directly into the control provided over the peripherals and products used on a Mac, nothing more. Open it up and see the stability go down the toilet.

**Geffy** · October 10th, 2007

Still the best thing in my mind is the older Macs where the CPU had an opcode called HCF which would just lock the system completely.

HCF apparently stood for Halt and Catch Fire

Mac's do crash, my first iBook the logic board failed, couldn't do **** with it. Got the board replaced and its been fine ever since. I'd say Mac's are more stable than Windows machines, less tempermental. That said when a Mac crashes you know something has gone quite wrong. Windows, I am exaggerating here, often seems to decide to crash just 'cause its Tuesday.

And the control of the hardware is the reason for it, no mistake there. Apples quote on this is 'People who are serious about software should be serious about hardware' and its true.

**LordOfLA** · October 10th, 2007

My windows machines "just work" provided I have no hardware faults. This will be true whatever OS you use.

**Geffy** · October 10th, 2007

Thats the problem with Windows, there is so much shoddy drivers for hardware out there. Pre WinXP MS where having to keep bugs in the code to not break third party drivers. With XP and now Vista I think they have moved a long way to fixing that issue.

Typically speaking most of the rep Windows gets is from the little brand machines. Brands like Dell are usually quite stable, they too managed the hardware and sometimes the drivers which are used in their machines almost the same degree Apple does.

Hey LordOfLA, what floor you work on in VSNL, I've been spending a lot of time in COLO4 recently and might have an office in Storage 1 soon.

**LordOfLA** · October 10th, 2007

Second floor. COLO2

The only storage I'm aware of is the storage area between 2 of the rooms on the second floor tthat was caged off by Coreix when our contract had that space assigned to us for storing all our spare parts and stuff

I'm on nights for the rest of this week and next but I'll be on days after that. Should call second floor and ask for me (Mark) if you're on site then

**Geffy** · October 11th, 2007

Its down by the break room, near the Tech offices.

I've just got back in after fitting a new 7606 chassis into THN so I am really hoping I won't be going to tyco tomorrow

**LordOfLA** · October 11th, 2007

The Coreix support office is opposite the break room.

The break room used to be a Coreix office

You should hop over one night and maybe I'll show you around

**Geffy** · October 11th, 2007

That break room has the nicest hot chocolate ever. Will try to let you know ahead of time when I will be there next. What time you start for nights?

**LordOfLA** · October 11th, 2007

11PM I start for nights. Glad you like our vending machine

**sean.ferguson** · October 11th, 2007

Originally Posted by X-Istence

Rev. A products from Apple are not products I want to buy. I waited to buy my MacBook Pro for a reason, I waited to get an iBook for that reason. Stuff always seems to not work as smooth as expected with the first releases.

My Rev A Mackbook has never gave me any issues whatsoever, either did my rev A iPod Nano... or my Rev A iBook G4

However, I have recieved one kernel panic on my old iBook after running Azureus. My Macbook has had zero issues even after a DIY hard drive upgrade

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #1
Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Joined: April 2002 Location: Between Austin and Tampa Posts: 14,888 Reputation: 4110 Power: 313	So Macs DO Crash... Who woulda thunk it Certainly not me, after watching the "clever" (read condascending, obnoxious, inaccurate and mis-leading) ads. A growing number of users have reported that Apple's aluminum all-in-one computers suffer from a flaw that locks up the interface, rendering the system all but inert until a reboot. Customers participating in Apple's official support discussions (one, two) have reported that the new iMac will technically continue to run when the freeze occurs, but that it becomes impossible to control or switch to programs without a hard reset. "Whatever was going on at the time continues, so if you were listening to music it continues to play," one user wrote. "The mouse pointer moves but you cannot select anything. Tabbing through apps doesn't work." Significantly, some can still control basic functions from the keyboard, such as pausing music or activating the Caps Lock key. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ng_issues.html Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home, is it in you?

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #2
X-Istence * Joined: December 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,496 Reputation: 2808 Power: 220	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Rev. A products from Apple are not products I want to buy. I waited to buy my MacBook Pro for a reason, I waited to get an iBook for that reason. Stuff always seems to not work as smooth as expected with the first releases. And no **** Macs crash, it was programmed by humans, and ATI drivers for almost any platform blows balls. Nvidia has always released drivers that are quality. An engineers technical notebook

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #3
Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Joined: April 2002 Location: Between Austin and Tampa Posts: 14,888 Reputation: 4110 Power: 313	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Roffle cakes Nvidia drivers crash and have just as many issues as AMD drivers do, if not more. Especially when it comes to the Vista platform. 3 odd years ago, Ati drivers were pants for stability. Further, this issue affects the platform, remember what the ads say m8 It's about the entire thing "just working". There is significant quality control and various controls over the products and their parameters before they go into the chassis. Anyways, if there are problems, don't claim your **** don't stink and continue as if everything is perfect. Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home, is it in you?

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #4
Electronic Punk The Last High Joined: December 2001 Location: London Posts: 18,510 Blog Entries: 51 Reputation: 3652 Power: 349	Re: So Macs DO Crash... They should just press ctrl alt del ;p

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #5
lancer There is no answer! Joined: October 2004 Location: FL, USA Posts: 3,087 Blog Entries: 3 Reputation: 1430 Power: 137	Re: So Macs DO Crash... doesn't intel now provide the cpu's? "The world has just got smaller now, but people have got further away."

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October 9th, 2007	Top \| #6
falconguard Carbon based lifeform Joined: February 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 3,406 Reputation: 2305 Power: 158	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Apple +Q,Apple +Q,Apple +Q,Apple +Q oh wait...

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #7
Xie - geek - Joined: September 2003 Location: NY, USA Posts: 5,224 Reputation: 1730 Power: 175	Re: So Macs DO Crash... The issue appears to be related to the ATI Radeon HD graphics hardware and its drivers, but has proven unpredictable. Driver problem, not an Apples/Macs "flaw". This would happen with any OS you ran an unstable video driver on. Ok I guess Windows would just BSOD and auto-reboot for you if you had XP and hadn't disabled that super silly default setting. tehgeek \| tehgeek \| geeking out to tech \| IRC \| Parted Magic \| A+ Certified Professional

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #8
Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Joined: April 2002 Location: Between Austin and Tampa Posts: 14,888 Reputation: 4110 Power: 313	Re: So Macs DO Crash... It's an all-in-one device amigo The issue is with the entire product crashing, something which allegedly NEVER happens on Mac's. And as I mentioned, Apple has a hell of a lot more control over what products are compatible with it's "solution" and can be used. They have FAR fewer products/vendors/drivers to worry about than other solution providers. Fwiw, my Vista based system has only been unresponsive 1 time and that too BEFORE entering the windows platform (i.e. while booting but before entering the OS itself) Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home, is it in you?

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #9
Xie - geek - Joined: September 2003 Location: NY, USA Posts: 5,224 Reputation: 1730 Power: 175	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Originally Posted by Sazar The issue is with the entire product crashing, something which allegedly NEVER happens on Mac's. Sounded more like a "lockup" (drivers hogging 100% CPU) then a "crash" (which would be a kernel panic in Mac land). Apple may have ALOT of control over the platform but they still don't write the drivers for the video cards. I will admit that none of the systems shipped should have any drivers included that were anywhere near unstable though. As for it never happening, thats a fantasy. Just happens FAR less on a Mac compared to a Windows machine (I own both). I've never had a kernel panic (knock on wood) .. and only a few BSOD (usually after installing a new driver or doing something dumb). tehgeek \| tehgeek \| geeking out to tech \| IRC \| Parted Magic \| A+ Certified Professional

October 9th, 2007	Top \| #10
muzikool Act your wage. Joined: December 2001 Location: Texas, USA Reputation: Yes, please. Posts: 7,626 Reputation: 2900 Power: 232	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Why would Apple advertise that sometimes its computers freeze up or have kernel panics? Why would Bose advertise that it sells the best-sounding speakers for people that don't really know how good speakers should sound? Why would Dish Network advertise its Dual-Tuner DVR as a DVR that can record two shows at once, but not two HD shows at once? Marketing is marketing and it's just hype, not truth. I don't think it's right or ethical, but it's the way it is and I try to be educated enough to not drink the proverbial kool-aid.

October 10th, 2007	Top \| #11
Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Joined: April 2002 Location: Between Austin and Tampa Posts: 14,888 Reputation: 4110 Power: 313	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Originally Posted by Xie Sounded more like a "lockup" (drivers hogging 100% CPU) I would call anything that forces me to reset my system due to being unresponsive a crash. And I don't really consider being able to turn my caps lock on and move my mouse pointer around to be responsive Also, keep in mind that not all the users are able to move the pointer around, and only a few have been able to "use" the caps lock key. then a "crash" (which would be a kernel panic in Mac land). Apple may have ALOT of control over the platform but they still don't write the drivers for the video cards. I will admit that none of the systems shipped should have any drivers included that were anywhere near unstable though. Windows has their WHQL standard, Apple has their own testing program and it has to pass validation on far fewer levels than Microsofts simply because of the nature of the market. As for it never happening, thats a fantasy. Just happens FAR less on a Mac compared to a Windows machine (I own both). I've never had a kernel panic (knock on wood) .. and only a few BSOD (usually after installing a new driver or doing something dumb). And this goes directly into the control provided over the peripherals and products used on a Mac, nothing more. Open it up and see the stability go down the toilet. Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home, is it in you?

October 10th, 2007	Top \| #12
Geffy OSNN Veteran Addict Joined: March 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,805 Reputation: 1490 Power: 217	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Still the best thing in my mind is the older Macs where the CPU had an opcode called HCF which would just lock the system completely. HCF apparently stood for Halt and Catch Fire Mac's do crash, my first iBook the logic board failed, couldn't do **** with it. Got the board replaced and its been fine ever since. I'd say Mac's are more stable than Windows machines, less tempermental. That said when a Mac crashes you know something has gone quite wrong. Windows, I am exaggerating here, often seems to decide to crash just 'cause its Tuesday. And the control of the hardware is the reason for it, no mistake there. Apples quote on this is 'People who are serious about software should be serious about hardware' and its true.  • blog • tumblog • lastfm • flickr • #rubyonrails • @twitter "I could be replaced with a very small shell script"

October 10th, 2007	Top \| #13
LordOfLA Godlike! Joined: February 2004 Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire, UK Posts: 7,031 Blog Entries: 5 Reputation: 4137 Power: 213	Re: So Macs DO Crash... My windows machines "just work" provided I have no hardware faults. This will be true whatever OS you use. If HK-47 and GLaDOS had a child, the character they create would cause the video game world to overdose on awesome. -sheridanmovieguy: Dragon age forum user.

October 10th, 2007	Top \| #14
Geffy OSNN Veteran Addict Joined: March 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,805 Reputation: 1490 Power: 217	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Thats the problem with Windows, there is so much shoddy drivers for hardware out there. Pre WinXP MS where having to keep bugs in the code to not break third party drivers. With XP and now Vista I think they have moved a long way to fixing that issue. Typically speaking most of the rep Windows gets is from the little brand machines. Brands like Dell are usually quite stable, they too managed the hardware and sometimes the drivers which are used in their machines almost the same degree Apple does. Hey LordOfLA, what floor you work on in VSNL, I've been spending a lot of time in COLO4 recently and might have an office in Storage 1 soon.  • blog • tumblog • lastfm • flickr • #rubyonrails • @twitter "I could be replaced with a very small shell script"

October 10th, 2007	Top \| #15
LordOfLA Godlike! Joined: February 2004 Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire, UK Posts: 7,031 Blog Entries: 5 Reputation: 4137 Power: 213	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Second floor. COLO2 The only storage I'm aware of is the storage area between 2 of the rooms on the second floor tthat was caged off by Coreix when our contract had that space assigned to us for storing all our spare parts and stuff I'm on nights for the rest of this week and next but I'll be on days after that. Should call second floor and ask for me (Mark) if you're on site then If HK-47 and GLaDOS had a child, the character they create would cause the video game world to overdose on awesome. -sheridanmovieguy: Dragon age forum user.

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October 11th, 2007	Top \| #16
Geffy OSNN Veteran Addict Joined: March 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,805 Reputation: 1490 Power: 217	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Its down by the break room, near the Tech offices. I've just got back in after fitting a new 7606 chassis into THN so I am really hoping I won't be going to tyco tomorrow  • blog • tumblog • lastfm • flickr • #rubyonrails • @twitter "I could be replaced with a very small shell script"

October 11th, 2007	Top \| #17
LordOfLA Godlike! Joined: February 2004 Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire, UK Posts: 7,031 Blog Entries: 5 Reputation: 4137 Power: 213	Re: So Macs DO Crash... The Coreix support office is opposite the break room. The break room used to be a Coreix office You should hop over one night and maybe I'll show you around If HK-47 and GLaDOS had a child, the character they create would cause the video game world to overdose on awesome. -sheridanmovieguy: Dragon age forum user.

October 11th, 2007	Top \| #18
Geffy OSNN Veteran Addict Joined: March 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,805 Reputation: 1490 Power: 217	Re: So Macs DO Crash... That break room has the nicest hot chocolate ever. Will try to let you know ahead of time when I will be there next. What time you start for nights?  • blog • tumblog • lastfm • flickr • #rubyonrails • @twitter "I could be replaced with a very small shell script"

October 11th, 2007	Top \| #19
LordOfLA Godlike! Joined: February 2004 Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire, UK Posts: 7,031 Blog Entries: 5 Reputation: 4137 Power: 213	Re: So Macs DO Crash... 11PM I start for nights. Glad you like our vending machine If HK-47 and GLaDOS had a child, the character they create would cause the video game world to overdose on awesome. -sheridanmovieguy: Dragon age forum user.

October 11th, 2007	Top \| #20
sean.ferguson OSNN Veteran Addict Joined: July 2003 Location: Fife; Scotland Posts: 1,693 Reputation: 550 Power: 130	Re: So Macs DO Crash... Originally Posted by X-Istence Rev. A products from Apple are not products I want to buy. I waited to buy my MacBook Pro for a reason, I waited to get an iBook for that reason. Stuff always seems to not work as smooth as expected with the first releases. My Rev A Mackbook has never gave me any issues whatsoever, either did my rev A iPod Nano... or my Rev A iBook G4 However, I have recieved one kernel panic on my old iBook after running Azureus. My Macbook has had zero issues even after a DIY hard drive upgrade Mac - 13-inch Macbook Core Duo 1.83GHz\| 1GB Ram \| 120GB Internal \| BT & AE \| OS 10.5 PC- Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8GHz \| 2GB Dual Channel Ram \| 360GB Internal \| Lite-On DVDRW \| Radeon X1300XT \| Vista Home Premium 64-bit