compressed air car - Page 2

trainmaster77 · April 4th, 2007

Originally Posted by Steevo

The worst you can do with the material found in a fission core reactor is to create a dirty bomb and pollute the area. It isn't weapons grade stuff. Not even close.

Plus spent uranium is even less of a threat. So would I like it buried in the same area it came from? Sure, why not.

a dirty bomb to pollute the area? how about several dirty bombs in Manhattan? How many people would that effect RIGHT NOW?

**Vanquished** · April 4th, 2007

Originally Posted by trainmaster77

a dirty bomb to pollute the area? how about several dirty bombs in Manhattan? How many people would that effect RIGHT NOW?

10?
Not very many, If you can get ur hands on High Explosives, you don't need to go steal nuclear waste....
Not to mention you can buy Uranium that would do the same thing, legally from: http://www.unitednuclear.com/

**Grandmaster** · April 4th, 2007

Originally Posted by trainmaster77

and yes im sure about the stored energy of biodiesel ... look in this months motor trend. stored energy as follows in btu/gallon (british thermal units):

Diesel Fuel 128,700
Biodiesel Fuel 117,093
Gasoline 115,400
Ethanol (E85) 81,844
Ethanol (E100) 75,670
Lithium-ion battery 3600-7200 (Est)
Nickel-Metal Hydride battery 1300-1800 (Est)

Cool, I wasn't sure and that's why I asked. I'll ask another question (which I've already asked in regards to the compressed air):

how much energy will we have to waste to actually make the biodiesel? Oil and coal are relatively cheap to extract, where as biofuels require us to put in a lot more energy to make them.

and the comment about erosion ... you surely don't live in the midwest ..because anyone making that comment has no clue what farmers do. You actually think farmers allow erosion to happen? The very thing that feeds their family ..their biggest asset ... allowed to simply vanish? Obviously that comment is derived from some crap you read on some tree-hugging website or magazine.

Is all of this false?

Fertile soil will be destroyed if crops and other “wastes” are removed to make cellulosic ethanol.

“We stand, in most places on earth, only six inches from desolation, for that is the thickness of the topsoil layer upon which the entire life of the planet depends” (Sampson 1981).

Fuels from biomass are not sustainable, are ecologically destructive, have a net energy loss, and there isn’t enough biomass in America to make significant amounts of energy because essential inputs like water, land, fossil fuels, and phosphate ores are limited.

Long before there was “Peak Oil”, there was “Peak Soil”. Iowa has some of the best topsoil in the world. In the past century, half of it’s been lost, from an average of 18 to 10 inches deep (Pate 2004, Klee 1991).

Productivity drops off sharply when topsoil reaches 6 inches or less, the average crop root zone depth (Sundquist 2005).

Crop productivity continually declines as topsoil is lost and residues are removed. (Al-Kaisi May 2001, Ball 2005, Blanco-Canqui 2006, BOA 1986, Calviño 2003, Franzleubbers 2006, Grandy 2006, Johnson 2004, Johnson 2005, Miranowski 1984, Power 1998, Sadras 2001, Troeh 2005, Wilhelm 2004).

On over half of America’s best crop land, the erosion rate is 27 times the natural rate, 11,000 pounds per acre (NCRS 2006). The natural, geological erosion rate is about 400 pounds of soil per acre per year (Troeh 2005). Some is due to farmers not being paid enough to conserve their land, but most is due to investors who farm for profit. Erosion control cuts into profits.

Erosion is happening ten to twenty times faster than the rate topsoil can be formed by natural processes (Pimentel 2006). That might make the average person concerned. But not the USDA -- they’ve defined erosion as the average soil loss that could occur without causing a decline in long term productivity.

Full Article

Read the rest of it to see why switching to biofuel isn't such a good idea but the jist of it is:

1) It is not sustainable in the long run.
2) We won't have land left to grow food on.

If people would actually be patient and wait for the real facts to surface ..ALL of the facts...and stop making absurd assumptions and accusations ... many of our problems ...including our reliance on foreign energy might actually be solved .... but this would take EVERYONE being totally honest with their beliefs ..setting them aside ...and being able to make rational and responsible conclusions.

So ... just because YOU or anyone else want something to happen ..and you bend,twist, and even fabricate information to justify your belief and desire ... thats not enough ..because there are too many people that do just that. when everyone involved are able to sit down ...be rational ..and propose real ideas and thoughts (also called brainstorming) you come up with excellent problem solving ideas. And this isn't Rosie O'donnell or Akmud Amajenajadajajads of the world ... these ideas and solutions come from normal everyday people like you and me.

I'm not sure why you took my comment so personally...and I like how you took one comment I made about topsoil and used that to create a full personality profile.

Look, I'm on your side trainmaster. I also want a good renewable energy source to replace our current addiction to foreign oil.

It's true I don't know much about farming, but I do know what's bad for the topsoil...if you've got something that will help convince that biofuels are indeed not bad for the topsoil I will gladly change views...

**Steevo** · April 4th, 2007

I am a parts manager at a Case IH, Krone and New Holland, Agriculturial and Industrail dealer in Colorado. Plus the Network and system admin.

It has been proven that it takes more energy to make ethenol than to use gasoline. It is just well funded by the government.

Just a little FYI, and we have alot of wind energy harnessed out here. By Sydney NE. there is a huge field of wind turbines, and it is "available" to us through our energy providers.

No matter the cost of making the turbines, errecting them, and maintaing them. They are "clean" as clean as my ass after a two week camping trip.

The problem isn't houses, they hae never been better insulated, the problem isn't cars, they have never had such low emmisions and good gas mileage, the problem lies in the those who insist on wasting. Because they can. because they can write off the miles, the SUV, the fuel.

Because they have no insight as to what the long term effects are.

trainmaster77 · April 5th, 2007

i didn't mean to be personal ..i guess after reading it ..it was read that way. I just meant to make the point about misinformation. My family farms ... and they are barely getting by and the idea of ethanol brings smiles to their faces.

It may indeed take more energy to make ethanol ..as sugarcane is the most efficient way to do so ... but we must take into consideration what we have available in huge ...almost unimaginable amounts.

what does one think of on the American Continent? Corn, Soybeans, grasslands, trees, coal, shale, ocean, rivers, technology, animal waste (discarded carcasses from our meat industry) and then TRASH .. no specific order.

There are no exact answers to this problem. Thats for sure and I enjoy threads like this where people with real thoughts provide their insight on the issues.

I think its safe to say:

*No one wants a nuclear reactor in their back yard ..nor a coal power plant.

*We must use something that is both inexpensive and widely available and/or could be widely available in the foreseeable future with technology advancements.

*People of all walks of life must be willing to accept change and stop wasteful ways

**(I personally think the law that says corporations only responsiblity is to provide value to shareholders should be changed to "provide a safe, environmentally responsible, and honest transparency ... all before shareholder value.) I feel this is the way to change the way Human Beings think...or at least a start. Because now ..everything seems to be based on expense first and foremost. There needs to be a change to environment first.

*People must put political beliefs aside ..even religious ...or even regional ... for the good of all (note my comment about farmers liking ethanol) ..maybe not everyone likes the idea of corn costing more.

if anyone would add to this feel free...

**Vanquished** · April 5th, 2007

I kinda disagree with the "Nobody wants a nuclear power plant in their back yard".
If it would make the U.S. use nuclear power, I would live at a nuclear power plant for 5 years, simply to show its safe.
Now, in terms of home values... yeah, its an eye sore, but put it in a place where it can not be seen or something.

**Steevo** · April 5th, 2007

Thus the idea of offshore reactors.

You can make radioactive "dirty bombs" from ANY radioactive source.

Get a few hundred smoke alarms and you will have enough for a small bomb. It is just a fact of life.

**Vanquished** · April 5th, 2007

Originally Posted by Steevo

Thus the idea of offshore reactors.

You can make radioactive "dirty bombs" from ANY radioactive source.

Get a few hundred smoke alarms and you will have enough for a small bomb. It is just a fact of life.

Yeah, Im all for nuclear power.

April 4th, 2007	Top \| #21
trainmaster77 OSNN Senior Addict Joined: February 2005 Location: St. Louis/Chicago Posts: 509 Reputation: 170 Power: 91	Re: compressed air car Originally Posted by Steevo The worst you can do with the material found in a fission core reactor is to create a dirty bomb and pollute the area. It isn't weapons grade stuff. Not even close. Plus spent uranium is even less of a threat. So would I like it buried in the same area it came from? Sure, why not. a dirty bomb to pollute the area? how about several dirty bombs in Manhattan? How many people would that effect RIGHT NOW? Care for some tea?

April 4th, 2007	Top \| #22
Vanquished B's logo for a game! Joined: January 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,840 Blog Entries: 1 Reputation: 1816 Power: 141	Re: compressed air car Originally Posted by trainmaster77 a dirty bomb to pollute the area? how about several dirty bombs in Manhattan? How many people would that effect RIGHT NOW? 10? Not very many, If you can get ur hands on High Explosives, you don't need to go steal nuclear waste.... Not to mention you can buy Uranium that would do the same thing, legally from: http://www.unitednuclear.com/ Phenom II X4 955 BE \| 12GB DDR3 1600mhz \| Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 \| ATI Radeon 5770 CrossfireX \|Windows Awesome (I Mean... Windows 7 Ultimate!) OSNN - The Best Place to Stay on the Internet! Watch Improv-A-Ganza!

April 4th, 2007	Top \| #23
Grandmaster Electronica Addict Joined: February 2002 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 10,574 Reputation: 2960 Power: 257	Re: compressed air car Originally Posted by trainmaster77 and yes im sure about the stored energy of biodiesel ... look in this months motor trend. stored energy as follows in btu/gallon (british thermal units): Diesel Fuel 128,700 Biodiesel Fuel 117,093 Gasoline 115,400 Ethanol (E85) 81,844 Ethanol (E100) 75,670 Lithium-ion battery 3600-7200 (Est) Nickel-Metal Hydride battery 1300-1800 (Est) Cool, I wasn't sure and that's why I asked. I'll ask another question (which I've already asked in regards to the compressed air): how much energy will we have to waste to actually make the biodiesel? Oil and coal are relatively cheap to extract, where as biofuels require us to put in a lot more energy to make them. and the comment about erosion ... you surely don't live in the midwest ..because anyone making that comment has no clue what farmers do. You actually think farmers allow erosion to happen? The very thing that feeds their family ..their biggest asset ... allowed to simply vanish? Obviously that comment is derived from some crap you read on some tree-hugging website or magazine. Is all of this false? Fertile soil will be destroyed if crops and other “wastes” are removed to make cellulosic ethanol. “We stand, in most places on earth, only six inches from desolation, for that is the thickness of the topsoil layer upon which the entire life of the planet depends” (Sampson 1981). Fuels from biomass are not sustainable, are ecologically destructive, have a net energy loss, and there isn’t enough biomass in America to make significant amounts of energy because essential inputs like water, land, fossil fuels, and phosphate ores are limited. Long before there was “Peak Oil”, there was “Peak Soil”. Iowa has some of the best topsoil in the world. In the past century, half of it’s been lost, from an average of 18 to 10 inches deep (Pate 2004, Klee 1991). Productivity drops off sharply when topsoil reaches 6 inches or less, the average crop root zone depth (Sundquist 2005). Crop productivity continually declines as topsoil is lost and residues are removed. (Al-Kaisi May 2001, Ball 2005, Blanco-Canqui 2006, BOA 1986, Calviño 2003, Franzleubbers 2006, Grandy 2006, Johnson 2004, Johnson 2005, Miranowski 1984, Power 1998, Sadras 2001, Troeh 2005, Wilhelm 2004). On over half of America’s best crop land, the erosion rate is 27 times the natural rate, 11,000 pounds per acre (NCRS 2006). The natural, geological erosion rate is about 400 pounds of soil per acre per year (Troeh 2005). Some is due to farmers not being paid enough to conserve their land, but most is due to investors who farm for profit. Erosion control cuts into profits. Erosion is happening ten to twenty times faster than the rate topsoil can be formed by natural processes (Pimentel 2006). That might make the average person concerned. But not the USDA -- they’ve defined erosion as the average soil loss that could occur without causing a decline in long term productivity. Full Article Read the rest of it to see why switching to biofuel isn't such a good idea but the jist of it is: 1) It is not sustainable in the long run. 2) We won't have land left to grow food on. If people would actually be patient and wait for the real facts to surface ..ALL of the facts...and stop making absurd assumptions and accusations ... many of our problems ...including our reliance on foreign energy might actually be solved .... but this would take EVERYONE being totally honest with their beliefs ..setting them aside ...and being able to make rational and responsible conclusions. So ... just because YOU or anyone else want something to happen ..and you bend,twist, and even fabricate information to justify your belief and desire ... thats not enough ..because there are too many people that do just that. when everyone involved are able to sit down ...be rational ..and propose real ideas and thoughts (also called brainstorming) you come up with excellent problem solving ideas. And this isn't Rosie O'donnell or Akmud Amajenajadajajads of the world ... these ideas and solutions come from normal everyday people like you and me. I'm not sure why you took my comment so personally...and I like how you took one comment I made about topsoil and used that to create a full personality profile. Look, I'm on your side trainmaster. I also want a good renewable energy source to replace our current addiction to foreign oil. It's true I don't know much about farming, but I do know what's bad for the topsoil...if you've got something that will help convince that biofuels are indeed not bad for the topsoil I will gladly change views...

April 4th, 2007	Top \| #24
Steevo Spammer representing. Joined: September 2004 Posts: 2,566 Blog Entries: 2 Reputation: 1630 Power: 132	Re: compressed air car I am a parts manager at a Case IH, Krone and New Holland, Agriculturial and Industrail dealer in Colorado. Plus the Network and system admin. It has been proven that it takes more energy to make ethenol than to use gasoline. It is just well funded by the government. Just a little FYI, and we have alot of wind energy harnessed out here. By Sydney NE. there is a huge field of wind turbines, and it is "available" to us through our energy providers. No matter the cost of making the turbines, errecting them, and maintaing them. They are "clean" as clean as my ass after a two week camping trip. The problem isn't houses, they hae never been better insulated, the problem isn't cars, they have never had such low emmisions and good gas mileage, the problem lies in the those who insist on wasting. Because they can. because they can write off the miles, the SUV, the fuel. Because they have no insight as to what the long term effects are. Meow. Equal oppertunity hater.

April 5th, 2007	Top \| #25
trainmaster77 OSNN Senior Addict Joined: February 2005 Location: St. Louis/Chicago Posts: 509 Reputation: 170 Power: 91	Re: compressed air car i didn't mean to be personal ..i guess after reading it ..it was read that way. I just meant to make the point about misinformation. My family farms ... and they are barely getting by and the idea of ethanol brings smiles to their faces. It may indeed take more energy to make ethanol ..as sugarcane is the most efficient way to do so ... but we must take into consideration what we have available in huge ...almost unimaginable amounts. what does one think of on the American Continent? Corn, Soybeans, grasslands, trees, coal, shale, ocean, rivers, technology, animal waste (discarded carcasses from our meat industry) and then TRASH .. no specific order. There are no exact answers to this problem. Thats for sure and I enjoy threads like this where people with real thoughts provide their insight on the issues. I think its safe to say: No one wants a nuclear reactor in their back yard ..nor a coal power plant. We must use something that is both inexpensive and widely available and/or could be widely available in the foreseeable future with technology advancements. People of all walks of life must be willing to accept change and stop wasteful ways (I personally think the law that says corporations only responsiblity is to provide value to shareholders should be changed to "provide a safe, environmentally responsible, and honest transparency ... all before shareholder value.) I feel this is the way to change the way Human Beings think...or at least a start. Because now ..everything seems to be based on expense first and foremost. There needs to be a change to environment first. People must put political beliefs aside ..even religious ...or even regional ... for the good of all (note my comment about farmers liking ethanol) ..maybe not everyone likes the idea of corn costing more. if anyone would add to this feel free... Care for some tea?

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April 5th, 2007	Top \| #26
Vanquished B's logo for a game! Joined: January 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,840 Blog Entries: 1 Reputation: 1816 Power: 141	Re: compressed air car I kinda disagree with the "Nobody wants a nuclear power plant in their back yard". If it would make the U.S. use nuclear power, I would live at a nuclear power plant for 5 years, simply to show its safe. Now, in terms of home values... yeah, its an eye sore, but put it in a place where it can not be seen or something. Phenom II X4 955 BE \| 12GB DDR3 1600mhz \| Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 \| ATI Radeon 5770 CrossfireX \|Windows Awesome (I Mean... Windows 7 Ultimate!) OSNN - The Best Place to Stay on the Internet! Watch Improv-A-Ganza!

April 5th, 2007	Top \| #27
Steevo Spammer representing. Joined: September 2004 Posts: 2,566 Blog Entries: 2 Reputation: 1630 Power: 132	Re: compressed air car Thus the idea of offshore reactors. You can make radioactive "dirty bombs" from ANY radioactive source. Get a few hundred smoke alarms and you will have enough for a small bomb. It is just a fact of life. Meow. Equal oppertunity hater.

April 5th, 2007	Top \| #28
Vanquished B's logo for a game! Joined: January 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,840 Blog Entries: 1 Reputation: 1816 Power: 141	Re: compressed air car Originally Posted by Steevo Thus the idea of offshore reactors. You can make radioactive "dirty bombs" from ANY radioactive source. Get a few hundred smoke alarms and you will have enough for a small bomb. It is just a fact of life. Yeah, Im all for nuclear power. Phenom II X4 955 BE \| 12GB DDR3 1600mhz \| Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 \| ATI Radeon 5770 CrossfireX \|Windows Awesome (I Mean... Windows 7 Ultimate!) OSNN - The Best Place to Stay on the Internet! Watch Improv-A-Ganza!

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