Blu-Ray Disc

**Vanquished** · March 8th, 2006

Hey Everyone,
I couldn't find the apropriate place for this thread so i put it here. Last summer i went to a media conference(dvd, cd, Movies) out in california, I saw a great display of the Blu-Ray disc which is going to change our movie, and game experience for ever. The quality of the blu-ray disc i saw was amazing, it produced the most vivid movie picture i have ever seen. The Blu-Ray disc will run anywhere from 500-4000 dollars per disc/ player combo. The prices are expected to drop dramatically soon after its release. The cool part about the Blu-Ray disc is that eventually in the near future there will be discs capable of holding 250 gb worth of stuff!
How does this compare to HD-DVD?
My take on this is that it will and should blow the the HD-DVD out of the market... Toshiba really missed the boat on this one, the Blu-Ray is much better in every way...
If you want to read the opinion of C-NET there are a bunch of articles on CNet.com
Enjoy!
-Jack

trainmaster77 · March 8th, 2006

well ...maybe blu-ray would be better for computers per say ...but the whole intention is movies. while eventually holding 250gb ... this means nothing for movies. The HD-DVD format is the superior medium for movies. This is already MUCH cheaper from the get-go and holds plenty of data for a standard HD movie.

Besides this ... the HD-DVD is capable of being produced on current DVD presses. This leads to further cost reduction. If its a matter of cost and volume ... the HD-DVD blows the Blu-Ray out of the water.

Besides ... im beginning to wonder the point of such expensive media anyway. With the upcoming addtion of the WW2 packing bandwidth speeds faster than our fastest processors and free or nearly free online storage available almost everywhere why would one want to spend such a premium on "discs?" Discs are obsolete in every way already.

**Son Goku** · March 8th, 2006

Actually, HD DVD uses the same sort of blue-violet laser that Blu Ray does. And though it holds 25 GB vs. 15 GB of data, this doesn't in and of itself mean that it would be the better medium for movies. The sort of video compression each uses, can also effect the actual capacity one gets on the thing; as higher compression rates == storing more data in less space. Someone mentioned the respective compression technologies slated for each, at another place where this was being discussed; albeit it's like 4 am, and I'm not entirely feeling like hunting it all down just now...

Blu Ray also had one other cost factor involved. The actual recording puts the "bits" closer to the surface of the disk, which left the original Blu Ray disks more suseptible to damage due to scratches, dust, or whatever. Reason they initially put them in caddies based on some sites indication. This itself would have been an added expense they didn't want. There was a solution, with using a given coating on the disk which would make it more durable. Of course this coating is an added cost (to the manufacture) in addition to the cost of the disks. This does make me wonder how Blu Ray burners would work (if this came out like DVD-RWs have), given that having to apply the coating afterwards, not sure how many consumers would fair...

One thing however, the ability to go dual layer, double sided, or whatever would not necessarily be unique to Blu Ray itself; as HD DVD is not necessarily unable to introduce such things to increase it's capacity as well...

In the end, there is another matter besides cost (and Blu Ray is a hell of a lot more expensive from what they're saying, as well as being latter to arrive on the market by a couple months); and that's how much DRM is bundled in each. After having looked into these respective formats, it became apperent that although both formats include DRM (and more then I for one would like to see), Blu Ray has more DRM (digital rights management) then HD DVD. Personally, that in itself would make me want to go for HD DVD instead, as I am absolutely no fan of DRM and see no reason to throw my support, and my dollars/"monetary votes" towards a platform that supports more DRM rather then less...

**Vanquished** · March 8th, 2006

Im still voting for Blu-Ray...
I went to the exhibit were they were both at and blu-ray was much better for the video quality... Why? I dont know but it was...
Also i believe Blu-Ray will have the availability to go 9 layers deep which is were is gets all its space from

**Son Goku** · March 8th, 2006

Well, talking about increasing either to 9 layers might be speculation at this point, especially when we don't know what the rival can be increased to. However, it appears that HD DVD has seen a capacity increase of late. How many more it could see, would itself be speculation as well...

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120802,00.asp

Toshiba has developed a prototype HD DVD disc that increases the format's storage capacity by 50 percent and brings it much closer to that of the rival Blu-ray Disc, the company said Tuesday.

The new disc has a capacity of 45GB, which is just under the 50GB offered by a dual-layer Blu-ray Disc. The added capacity removes one of the clear advantages Blu-ray Disc held over HD DVD, and gives content producers plenty of space to store longer high-definition movies, or extra content such as trailers, outtakes, or interactive features.

Toshiba accomplished the capacity jump by adding an extra data storage layer to the disc. Each HD DVD layer has a capacity of 15GB and the new disc packs three such layers.

This article was from May 2005, so apperently the development for 45 GB HD DVDs has been around for awhile now...

However, if one were to look at storage capacity alone, it looks as if Iomega has secured patents for a technique that could secure up to 850 GB on a disk, while holding costs similar to that of DVDs today...

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/05/24/na..._to_850_gbyte/

Iomega believes DVD media to remain competitive with upcoming optical storage technologies such as Blu-ray and HD-DVD: Nanotechnology could multiply the current maximum capacity to 8.5 GByte 40 to 100 times, the company said.

The DVD appears to be far from its end of life according to Iomega's discovery. The firm was granted two patents that cover a specific use of nanotechnology in combination with optical data storage as well as a "method and apparatus for optical data storage." In the patent description , Iomega talks about a technique of encoding data on the surface of a DVD by using reflective nano-structures to encode data in a multi-level format.

This technology, named AO-DVD (Articulated Optical - Digital Versatile Disc), allows more data to be stored on a DVD and could allow future optical discs to potentially hold 40-100 times more information with data transfer rates 5-30 times faster than today's DVDs. Iomega believes that such media could be manufactured at costs similar to those of DVDs.

The firm said it is currently "working to investigate the commercial feasibility" of this format and other nano-structural data encoding formats such as a "NG-DVD" (Nano-Grating - DVD), which uses nano-gratings to encode multi-level information via reflectivity, polarization, phase, and reflective orientation multiplexing.

This article's old, so no idea what, if anything will become of the patents...

March 8th, 2006	Top \| #1
Vanquished One of the 789 Joined: January 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,647 Blog Entries: 1 Reputation: 1718 Power: 114	Blu-Ray Disc Hey Everyone, I couldn't find the apropriate place for this thread so i put it here. Last summer i went to a media conference(dvd, cd, Movies) out in california, I saw a great display of the Blu-Ray disc which is going to change our movie, and game experience for ever. The quality of the blu-ray disc i saw was amazing, it produced the most vivid movie picture i have ever seen. The Blu-Ray disc will run anywhere from 500-4000 dollars per disc/ player combo. The prices are expected to drop dramatically soon after its release. The cool part about the Blu-Ray disc is that eventually in the near future there will be discs capable of holding 250 gb worth of stuff! How does this compare to HD-DVD? My take on this is that it will and should blow the the HD-DVD out of the market... Toshiba really missed the boat on this one, the Blu-Ray is much better in every way... If you want to read the opinion of C-NET there are a bunch of articles on CNet.com Enjoy! -Jack

March 8th, 2006	Last edited by trainmaster77; March 8th, 2006 at 8:54am. \| Top \| #2
trainmaster77 OSNN Senior Addict Joined: February 2005 Location: St. Louis/Chicago Posts: 517 Reputation: 170 Power: 68	Re: Blu-Ray Disc well ...maybe blu-ray would be better for computers per say ...but the whole intention is movies. while eventually holding 250gb ... this means nothing for movies. The HD-DVD format is the superior medium for movies. This is already MUCH cheaper from the get-go and holds plenty of data for a standard HD movie. Besides this ... the HD-DVD is capable of being produced on current DVD presses. This leads to further cost reduction. If its a matter of cost and volume ... the HD-DVD blows the Blu-Ray out of the water. Besides ... im beginning to wonder the point of such expensive media anyway. With the upcoming addtion of the WW2 packing bandwidth speeds faster than our fastest processors and free or nearly free online storage available almost everywhere why would one want to spend such a premium on "discs?" Discs are obsolete in every way already.
	Care for some tea?

March 8th, 2006	Top \| #3
Son Goku No lover of dogma Joined: June 2004 Location: 439 East District, Mount Paozu Posts: 1,990 Reputation: 700 Power: 97	Re: Blu-Ray Disc Actually, HD DVD uses the same sort of blue-violet laser that Blu Ray does. And though it holds 25 GB vs. 15 GB of data, this doesn't in and of itself mean that it would be the better medium for movies. The sort of video compression each uses, can also effect the actual capacity one gets on the thing; as higher compression rates == storing more data in less space. Someone mentioned the respective compression technologies slated for each, at another place where this was being discussed; albeit it's like 4 am, and I'm not entirely feeling like hunting it all down just now... Blu Ray also had one other cost factor involved. The actual recording puts the "bits" closer to the surface of the disk, which left the original Blu Ray disks more suseptible to damage due to scratches, dust, or whatever. Reason they initially put them in caddies based on some sites indication. This itself would have been an added expense they didn't want. There was a solution, with using a given coating on the disk which would make it more durable. Of course this coating is an added cost (to the manufacture) in addition to the cost of the disks. This does make me wonder how Blu Ray burners would work (if this came out like DVD-RWs have), given that having to apply the coating afterwards, not sure how many consumers would fair... One thing however, the ability to go dual layer, double sided, or whatever would not necessarily be unique to Blu Ray itself; as HD DVD is not necessarily unable to introduce such things to increase it's capacity as well... In the end, there is another matter besides cost (and Blu Ray is a hell of a lot more expensive from what they're saying, as well as being latter to arrive on the market by a couple months); and that's how much DRM is bundled in each. After having looked into these respective formats, it became apperent that although both formats include DRM (and more then I for one would like to see), Blu Ray has more DRM (digital rights management) then HD DVD. Personally, that in itself would make me want to go for HD DVD instead, as I am absolutely no fan of DRM and see no reason to throw my support, and my dollars/"monetary votes" towards a platform that supports more DRM rather then less...

March 8th, 2006	Top \| #4
Vanquished One of the 789 Joined: January 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,647 Blog Entries: 1 Reputation: 1718 Power: 114	Re: Blu-Ray Disc Im still voting for Blu-Ray... I went to the exhibit were they were both at and blu-ray was much better for the video quality... Why? I dont know but it was... Also i believe Blu-Ray will have the availability to go 9 layers deep which is were is gets all its space from

March 8th, 2006	Top \| #5
Son Goku No lover of dogma Joined: June 2004 Location: 439 East District, Mount Paozu Posts: 1,990 Reputation: 700 Power: 97	Re: Blu-Ray Disc Well, talking about increasing either to 9 layers might be speculation at this point, especially when we don't know what the rival can be increased to. However, it appears that HD DVD has seen a capacity increase of late. How many more it could see, would itself be speculation as well... http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120802,00.asp Toshiba has developed a prototype HD DVD disc that increases the format's storage capacity by 50 percent and brings it much closer to that of the rival Blu-ray Disc, the company said Tuesday. The new disc has a capacity of 45GB, which is just under the 50GB offered by a dual-layer Blu-ray Disc. The added capacity removes one of the clear advantages Blu-ray Disc held over HD DVD, and gives content producers plenty of space to store longer high-definition movies, or extra content such as trailers, outtakes, or interactive features. Toshiba accomplished the capacity jump by adding an extra data storage layer to the disc. Each HD DVD layer has a capacity of 15GB and the new disc packs three such layers. This article was from May 2005, so apperently the development for 45 GB HD DVDs has been around for awhile now... However, if one were to look at storage capacity alone, it looks as if Iomega has secured patents for a technique that could secure up to 850 GB on a disk, while holding costs similar to that of DVDs today... http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/05/24/na..._to_850_gbyte/ Iomega believes DVD media to remain competitive with upcoming optical storage technologies such as Blu-ray and HD-DVD: Nanotechnology could multiply the current maximum capacity to 8.5 GByte 40 to 100 times, the company said. The DVD appears to be far from its end of life according to Iomega's discovery. The firm was granted two patents that cover a specific use of nanotechnology in combination with optical data storage as well as a "method and apparatus for optical data storage." In the patent description , Iomega talks about a technique of encoding data on the surface of a DVD by using reflective nano-structures to encode data in a multi-level format. This technology, named AO-DVD (Articulated Optical - Digital Versatile Disc), allows more data to be stored on a DVD and could allow future optical discs to potentially hold 40-100 times more information with data transfer rates 5-30 times faster than today's DVDs. Iomega believes that such media could be manufactured at costs similar to those of DVDs. The firm said it is currently "working to investigate the commercial feasibility" of this format and other nano-structural data encoding formats such as a "NG-DVD" (Nano-Grating - DVD), which uses nano-gratings to encode multi-level information via reflectivity, polarization, phase, and reflective orientation multiplexing. This article's old, so no idea what, if anything will become of the patents...

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